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Thread: F-35 Lightning II Discussion

  1. #1
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    Default F-35 "Unaffordable"

    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/f-35-now-un...225131128.html

    "Over the lifetime of this program, the decade or so, the per-aircraft cost of the 2,443 aircraft we want has doubled in real terms," said Ashton Carter, the under secretary of defense for acquisition, technology and logistics.

    Ouch, even the US says their planes are too expensive. Heck, we only want 65, they plan on 2,443 (to use against whoever replaces Osama Bin Laden?)

    The original stated cost was $69 million, but has now inflated to $103 million plane only cost.

    If the US is unable to produce working F-35s, we could always go with some Chinese JF-17s. Only $15 million apiece, but probably would strain to do Mach 2.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAC_/_PAC_JF-17_Thunder
    Last edited by ZenOps; 05-19-2011 at 10:32 PM.
    Opportunity Cost : Columbus spent $0 on burned carbon fuels to find America.

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    You're joking about the JF-17s right?

    Part of the cost increase is because they include R&D in the price per unit and they cut the number they were initially going to manufacture.

    Also, the F-35 isn't really something you use much to attack terrorists.

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    Wow! if the dept of defence backs out of that one, I think it might be the end of lockheed-martin

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    Heh, of course.

    That fighter would probably be the main fighter the F-35 would go up against. Pakistan has ordered up 150 of them from China (Like the US, China will sell military equipment to anyone who is willing to pay the bucks to buy them) with a possible 250 if they like them.
    Opportunity Cost : Columbus spent $0 on burned carbon fuels to find America.

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    Not JF-17s but there's no reason why they couldn't go with a variant of the Su-30MK. It has the range and power for arctic patrols, 2 engines, and can more than take on any other fighter Canada is likely to go up against i.e. anyone other than US/EU. Just retrofit US/NATO missiles and radar. You can even buy the parts from China's Su27 line to save money.

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    I wonder if the Conservative knew this was going to happen.

    Watch them now pull the plug, after so many years of promises to buy, because the costs are skyrocketing.

    As far as global politics, they wouldnt look so anti-military (rather, fiscally prudent).

    If they wanted to be smart about it, the Conservatives should look at the F-18 E/F aircraft instead. I'd sincerely doubt the Canadian government would be willing to buy Russian military equipment - for political reasons only. The aircraft themselves would be perfectly suitable for our lunar climate.

    Either way, no contract has to be signed for the actual purchase of the JSF until 2013, and no cancellation fees would be applied.
    Last edited by revelations; 05-19-2011 at 11:26 PM.

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    What is so special about an F35. Most specs seem to favor the F22 over F35 on wiki. Wikipedia says the 2012-13 planes will be $200-300M each. I don't even know who the hell they are intending to use these against.

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    F22 is more expensive, or was at least, and was designed with air-to-air in mind, something that isn't a high priority at the moment. I don't think many dogfights happen anymore.

    F35 is kind of like a stealth harrier, other than the stealth component of the F22 the two machines are quite different.
    Last edited by Hakkola; 05-20-2011 at 01:54 AM.

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    But it wasn't the conservatives who originally signed the deal on the F35s... Mr Cretin himself did...

    But meanwhile we're running into the sea king scenario again - CF18s are getting old, they're out of date, they're already past their service life... And we keep dumping money into them... If we want an effective military we actually need aircraft that can function in a modern battlefield; the CF18s aren't meeting that need anymore.

    We could go out and do something like the JF17 - but then we'd be unable to work with our nato allies (all those nice new IFF and real time updated position systems) at least with the hardware thats already standard...

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    Originally posted by AndyL
    But it wasn't the conservatives who originally signed the deal on the F35s... Mr Cretin himself did...

    Most people are too fucking stupid to even comprehend this.

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    No doubt, perhaps we should just cut a blank cheque to bombardier, let them run up a tab for a fighter thats less capable; and even more costly to operate/maintain... We keep having to throw them $ so they can survive selling buisness jets... Might as well buy some quebec votes... lol

    We will call it the arrow 2 project

    Although history shows - we probably would go for that JF17 - aren't those the other countries who also bought the Northrop F5 - That was a wonderful piece of kit too... Didn't they call it the tinkertoy?

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    Originally posted by RickDaTuner
    Wow! if the dept of defence backs out of that one, I think it might be the end of lockheed-martin
    And knowing the US government it is the reason why in the end they'll pay for them.

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    Originally posted by dimi
    What is so special about an F35. Most specs seem to favor the F22 over F35 on wiki. Wikipedia says the 2012-13 planes will be $200-300M each. I don't even know who the hell they are intending to use these against.
    Seems there's no good answer coming on that. The nature of these tools is that they're for long distance force projection - IOW, they are a tool of empire.

    Given that we don't have our own empire, these would be used to support the American empire.

    In other words, we've bought these *for* the Americans, and our prime milister is a bitch of uncle same.

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    I don't know why they didn't go after the eurofighter. that thing is awesome. Also it is a fighter we jointly developed with the EU.

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    Originally posted by LollerBrader


    Seems there's no good answer coming on that. The nature of these tools is that they're for long distance force projection - IOW, they are a tool of empire.

    Given that we don't have our own empire, these would be used to support the American empire.

    In other words, we've bought these *for* the Americans, and our prime milister is a bitch of uncle same.
    Lol wat?

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    I don't think our government will cancel the aircraft, until the US government cancels theirs. Which won't happen, because as said, it would kill (or severely maim) Lockheed.

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    I think anyone who voted liberal should be forced to pay extra income tax to cover them. Its only fair.
    Vettel's #1

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    Originally posted by tentacles
    Not JF-17s but there's no reason why they couldn't go with a variant of the Su-30MK.
    YES! Russians know how to build fighters too... but if we dared buy something non-american for a strike fighter, there'd be many sandy vaginas...

    as Tik Tok said i dont think youll see the CDN gov abandon the project yet, we always have to hold on to the american's inside pocket on something like this... (if the cocksuckers in parliament didnt kowtow to the American gov during the Avro Arrow project, we wouldn't have this fken problem most likely)



    BUT we can't just go out buying different types of makes of aircraft en masse, fleet standardization is a very important factor in commercial aircraft operations for obvious financial and maintenance reasons, it should apply in the military as well. When we have to pick something new to buy, it should be a good handful worth.

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    The JF-17 does not meet our requirements, it's too small and light and doesn't have the range or power/payload we need. The Chinese themselves do not use JF-17, only Pakistan does. The Chinese Air Force uses imported Russian Su-30MKKs, they are not stupid. Su-30s are half the cost of the F-35 and still more than enough to mess up anyone we are likely to want to mes with. We could have 2x as many, which means more flight time which means more training for better pilots. And also, if we don't buy them, the Russians will just sell them to someone else, someone we may have to FIGHT later on. It's really the best way to go.
    Last edited by tentacles; 05-20-2011 at 02:32 PM.

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    Hence why the Euro fighter would be perfect

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