Trump Orders Strike Killing Top Iranian General Qassim Suleimani in Baghdad

[AndyL]

Just curious (as I really don't know the answer and don't feel like reading all night to figure it out) Isn't the nuclear football & strike orders have to go through a Military person - Those guys who provide the nuclear football / issue the orders have to decide whether the order is legal prior to allowing it to go ahead?

[ZenOps]

It seriously could have just been one person on the ground with an itchy trigger finger on his MANPAD portable Stinger. I mean, they sell new for $60,000 and even the base stinger has a chance of taking down a fighter jet or heli, a commercial airliner would be pie. Stingers can be modified to go to a solid 15,000 feet.

But it might still be a generals fault, as he is *usually* the one supplying the stingers and telling the men under what circumstances to pull that trigger.

https://nationalpost.com/news/calgar...ll-the-trigger

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-92_Stinger

[gwill]

come on guys its trumps fault just like it's the gun manufacturers to blame when people use guns to kill others or the alchohol suppliers when people drive home drunk.

Our society needs to blame others. No one wants to be accountable for their actions.

[AndyL]

https://iraninfo24.com/2020/01/13/ai...o-fly-iran-mp/

The Ukrainian aircraft was allowed to take-off after watchtower received three-step confirmation from the air defense.

“The watchtower asked for a three-step confirmation from the air-defense when the aircraft was ready to take-off”, the Deputy Chairman of the Parliamentary Committee on Civil Affairs, Abolfazl Mousavi Biyouki quoted Iran Civil Aviation Organization officials.

“It is a mandatory way to take-off”, he emphasized.

[msommers]

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I didn't realize you were in the room when he made the authorization to strike, or that you were part of the panel that was advising Trump...interesting.

So much wrong in your statements, I don't know where to begin... I mean, if I recall correctly, Obama did the same thing when he ordered the strike to Capture or Kill Bin Laden...

LOL Dude you're a smart fella. These two examples are not even remotely comparable.

But since it's necessary #thanksalotobama

[ZenOps]

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come on guys its trumps fault just like it's the gun manufacturers to blame when people use guns to kill others or the alchohol suppliers when people drive home drunk.

Our society needs to blame others. No one wants to be accountable for their actions.

I blame the coffee machine manufacturer when my coffee comes out anything less than perfect, so why can't I blame gun makers?

[CompletelyNumb]

How far back can we blame? Blame Trump for killing a terrorist? Can we blame the DNC for railroading Bernie's campaign and putting up a weaker candidate against Trump, helping him win? Can we blame England for not completely wiping out the US in 1812? Blame colonial expansion in the first place? Cause and effect has ripples far larger than a few days, after all.

People have way too large a hard-on when it comes to blaming Trump for this. Iran shot down a plane. It's their fault.

[ThePenIsMightier]

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That is worth something, I want to know what other people think. I'm trying to intentionally not bash him on this topic.

Edit - To be fair, he has demanded full responsibility. Like I said , I don't know what "the right answer" looks like exactly.

I guess the coming days will reveal more. I hope the country is cut off and the strictest diplomatic protocol is followed until such time as the situation is fully resolved. Whenever that may be. No more aid money, no more anything.

As an aside, I've seen online comments about "stay out of the West" in relation to his visit to Edmonton and that is something I can't understand. There is a point where partisanship and policy has to go away, those families deserve to have the leader of the Country at their doorstep, no matter what you think of him. That sentiment really irritated me.

Update from my Iranian home-slice with some insight I had not considered...

It sounds as if the Iranian gov't may not really see these victims as "Canadian" and while I can sort of see why, it's going to complicate things a lot. If victims were of Iranian ancestry, they might not give a shit where they moved to or what passports they got, thus meaning they don't really feel like they "owe" an explanation to Canada for shooting a plane full of Iranians down.
That's weird, but I kind of get it. Unfortunately, it's not great news for Canada or any of their other family members living here.

The other newish thing I'm hearing is that protesters are being shot with paintballs and not live ammo. However, if you're found marked with paint, you're getting rounded the fuck up and tossed in the not-finest jail.

Not claiming anything as fact, just a different viewpoint from a source with more insider knowledge.

[OTown]

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One thing that's worth calling out: who started the latest tit-for-tat with Iran? Was it when a particular person backed out of a particular deal and then instigated a particular bunch of punitive sanctions?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019...ir_Base_attack

The 2019 K-1 Air Base attack was a rocket attack on the K-1 Air Base in Kirkuk province in Iraq on 27 December 2019. The air base was one of many Iraqi military bases that host Operation Inherent Resolve (OIR) personnel and was attacked by more than 30 rockets. The attack occurred during the 2019–20 Persian Gulf crisis and preceded a series of events that eventually brought Iran and the United States to the brink of open conflict.

The rocket attack killed an American civilian contractor and injured four U.S. service members and two Iraqi security forces personnel.[2]

The American contractor that was killed, an Iraqi-American named Nawres Waleed Hamid from Sacramento, California, worked at the base as a linguist under the company Valiant Integrated Services. Valiant Integrated Services paid for his funeral and burial at the Greater Sacramento Muslim Cemetery, which took place on 4 January 2020, the day after his body was returned to the United States. He was a father of two.[3][4]

The U.S. blamed the Iranian-backed Kata'ib Hezbollah militia, a subgroup of Iraq's Popular Mobilization Units (PMU), for the attack. Kata'ib Hezbollah denied responsibility for the attack.[5] This led to a rapid series of events over the next week, starting with U.S. retaliation in Iraq and Syria, which targeted five Kata'ib Hezbollah weapon storage facilities and command and control locations in Iraq and Syria.[6][7] 25 militia members died[8] and 55 were wounded.[9]

It was followed by an attack on the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, which in turn led to a U.S. airstrike near Baghdad International Airport, killing Iranian general Qasem Soleimani and PMU commander Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis.

Worth noting that the Hezbollah founder was also killed in the US Drone strike on Soleimani.

[A790]

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019...ir_Base_attack

Uhh, no.

USA pulls out of Iran deal and kickstarts all this bullshit. Let's at least acknowledge that.

For the record, I don't believe Trump is to blame for Iran shooting down an airplane. I do believe it's important we have a reasoned conversation on the subject, and that means recognizing the causes and factors that lead to escalation.

[revelations]

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Uhh, no.

USA pulls out of Iran deal and kickstarts all this bullshit. Let's at least acknowledge that.

For the record, I don't believe Trump is to blame for Iran shooting down an airplane. I do believe it's important we have a reasoned conversation on the subject, and that means recognizing the causes and factors that lead to escalation.

I would suggest that you not apply a myopic view of the Iran issue - ie. confine it to one event - its a 40+ year long debacle thats being handled and manipulated by those high up in the American corporate and military elite (CIA- Shah), that have their own agenda, separate from what Turnip man may portray (ie deep state).

Iran has a fucked up head of state and the Americans need to stop pillaging countries.

I do find it interesting that Turnip man chose to do what the chicken hawks of the GWB-era chose not to do - again, trump going against the deepstate.

A quick read on the history of Iran BEFORE the Shah, tells you exactly what the Americans want. (wiki)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_I..._coup_d%27état

(president) Mosaddegh had sought to audit the documents of the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC), a British corporation (now part of BP) and to limit the company's control over Iranian oil reserves.[12] Upon the refusal of the AIOC to co-operate with the Iranian government, the parliament (Majlis) voted to nationalize Iran's oil industry and to expel foreign corporate representatives from the country.[13][14][15] After this vote, Britain instigated a worldwide boycott of Iranian oil to pressure Iran economically.

In August 2013, sixty years afterward, the U.S. government formally acknowledged the U.S. role in the coup by releasing a bulk of previously classified government documents that show it was in charge of both the planning and the execution of the coup, including the bribing of Iranian politicians, security and army high-ranking officials, as well as pro-coup propaganda.[29][30][31] The CIA is quoted acknowledging the coup was carried out "under CIA direction" and "as an act of U.S. foreign policy, conceived and approved at the highest levels of government".[32]

[gwill]

iran has arrested those who shot the plane down. It doesn't seem their blaming trump for the plane going down. Also it seems many lawyers are jumping at the chance to sue the airline for flying out of that airport at that time. Their also not going after trump even tho many like to blame him.

[OTown]

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I would suggest that you not apply a myopic view of the Iran issue - ie. confine it to one event - its a 40+ year long debacle thats being handled and manipulated by those high up in the American corporate and military elite (CIA- Shah), that have their own agenda, separate from what Turnip man may portray (ie deep state).

Iran has a fucked up head of state and the Americans need to stop pillaging countries.

I do find it interesting that Turnip man chose to do what the chicken hawks of the GWB-era chose not to do - again, trump going against the deepstate.

A quick read on the history of Iran BEFORE the Shah, tells you exactly what the Americans want. (wiki)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_I..._coup_d%27état

As always, these conflicts are incredibly complex.

This VOX video is pretty good at explaining/summarizing the whole situation

[revelations]

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As always, these conflicts are incredibly complex.

This VOX video is pretty good at explaining/summarizing the whole situation

And as per usual, the corporate mass media does sweet fuck all in terms of explaining the actual story correctly. Im not saying turnip man acted correctly/incorrectly here - he is just one domino in a chain - just that the who scenario regarding Iran was brought about by American and British, selfish interests entirely.

[AndyL]

There's the proof of 2 missiles being fired. Answering the cries over "why was this person recording in this direction at this time" "clearly staged"

[OTown]

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And as per usual, the corporate mass media does sweet fuck all in terms of explaining the actual story correctly. Im not saying turnip man acted correctly/incorrectly here - he is just one domino in a chain - just that the who scenario regarding Iran was brought about by American and British, selfish interests entirely.

Yep. It's a mess.

- - - Updated - - -

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There's the proof of 2 missiles being fired. Answering the cries over "why was this person recording in this direction at this time" "clearly staged"

Looks like someone using their phone to record CCTV camera footage

[Xtrema]

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So much wrong in your statements, I don't know where to begin... I mean, if I recall correctly, Obama did the same thing when he ordered the strike to Capture or Kill Bin Laden...

The difference is Osama has been implicated for doing 9/11.

Soleimani has not done anything (of significant) yet.

And it's much like the mess after removal of Saddam, this may help resurgence of ISIS.

End of the day, I'm not sure Trump have an end game in mind. It's just another distraction of the week trying to divert people's attention from impeachment. And he is much quieter (again may be self/media bias) ever since Flight 752 went down.

I think Trudeau's position on this is potentially reason why Iran admit missile strike and allow Canadian investigators in.

[syscal]

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I didn't realize you were in the room when he made the authorization to strike, or that you were part of the panel that was advising Trump...interesting.

This exactly. That opinion piece earlier in this thread nearly carbon copied a piece in the New York Times 7 days earlier as far as somehow knowing exactly how this "random" decision was made by Trump, all on his lonesome while relaxing in Florida, and completely against the advise of his entire government...but then if you change your search terms slightly you can find articles that state there was a long standing order to assassinate Soleimani if the timing was right, and that this was indeed the right time to hit the guy.

I don't know enough to have a solid opinion, but I certainly have learned not to believe much of what I hear or read in North American news - especially when it comes to Trump.

[Gman.45]

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The difference is Osama has been implicated for doing 9/11.

Soleimani has not done anything (of significant) yet.

And it's much like the mess after removal of Saddam, this may help resurgence of ISIS.

End of the day, I'm not sure Trump have an end game in mind. It's just another distraction of the week trying to divert people's attention from impeachment. And he is much quieter (again may be self/media bias) ever since Flight 752 went down.

I think Trudeau's position on this is potentially reason why Iran admit missile strike and allow Canadian investigators in.

Soleimani didn't do anything significant yet? Disagree. He's ordered countless actions vs Americans and other Westerners, and his Quds force has been supporting terrorism for years. He was an enemy combatant in uniform and had been actively engaged in both military and terrorist attacks. Under current international law he's fair game.

Just curious (as I really don't know the answer and don't feel like reading all night to figure it out) Isn't the nuclear football & strike orders have to go through a Military person - Those guys who provide the nuclear football / issue the orders have to decide whether the order is legal prior to allowing it to go ahead?

The President alone makes the final call to order a strike, obviously depending on the situation/time, he'd be getting a lot of input, intel, and advice, but in the end it's the President or his successor if he's killed or incapacitated that makes the call. That said, the land based missile silo guys have to agree that the SAS(sealed Authentication cards/system) and missile launch orders are authentic and valid, and of the 5 crewman who turn keys, only 2 of them have to agree for them to fire. It works a bit differently with aircraft launched/dropped weapons, and Navy's SSBM force, but there are still safeguards in place, but in the end, it's up to one person to make the decision in the USA - the President.

[Mitsu3000gt]

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This exactly. That opinion piece earlier in this thread nearly carbon copied a piece in the New York Times 7 days earlier as far as somehow knowing exactly how this "random" decision was made by Trump, all on his lonesome while relaxing in Florida, and completely against the advise of his entire government...but then if you change your search terms slightly you can find articles that state there was a long standing order to assassinate Soleimani if the timing was right, and that this was indeed the right time to hit the guy.

I don't know enough to have a solid opinion, but I certainly have learned not to believe much of what I hear or read in North American news - especially when it comes to Trump.

I don't think I have never read the NYT in my life haha - their online site requires a subscription as best I can tell.

Much of what I was going off of was Trump's own words, when he told multiple associates that one of the reasons he did it was because he was feeling pressure from other GOP senators to do it, specifically mentioning that those senators would be key allies should there a senate trial surrounding his impeachment. As I predicted earlier this was done, at least in part, to directly benefit himself.

Also, neither of us were in the room, so I don't really see how any counter point is any more convincing than my opinion haha. All anyone in this thread has to go off of is news articles, leaked documents, interviews with relevant people, etc. What multiple sources have said is that he was presented with 3 options from his advisers, the third of which was to actually kill Soleimani, and apparently nobody thought he would actually take that option because it was so ridiculous, but he did. Obviously I can't confirm that 100%, but multiple sources have said the same thing.

At the end of the day, Trump is a literal buffoon surrounded by yes-men (everyone else was fired or has quit), and he has on multiple occasions said that he trusts Russia's intelligence more than the CIA. He just does whatever the fuck he wants, so long as it benefits him or Russia.

There was some funny video on Twitter today that showed Putin and Assad literally laughing at him and making fun of him haha. This is in addition to the several times he has left NATO meetings and other similar meetings because of people laughing at him. The icing on the cake is that several years ago he tweeted something about America needing a president that wasn't the laughing stock of the world.

Anyway, I follow this news solely because I'm entertained by it, I hope nobody is talking it or any of my comments too seriously.