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Thread: Alberta public sector wages: 0% increase.

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misterman View Post
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    Can you elaborate on this one? How does a grade 10 teacher have more prep time during the day with their classes than a grade 1 teacher? I would think that since a grade 1 class requires literally zero prep, it would be easier to prep for.
    I know you didn't ask me but there is a TON of prep for the younger grades. Easiest proof of this is watch teachers leaving at the end of the day from a primary school with bins and bins of stuff. Most teachers have some rubbermaid bin that they carry
    Cos...

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cosworth View Post
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    Saturday: - 2-3 hours marking at home
    Sunday: 2-3 hours marking at home
    Monday: 745 - 400, 1 hour marking at home
    Tuesday: 745-400
    Wednesday: 730 - 5 (some meetings)
    Thursday: 730 - 4
    Friday: 730 - 330
    That's a very manageable work week for someone who doesn't get ~3 months a year off work IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjblair View Post
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    That's a very manageable work week for someone who doesn't get ~3 months a year off work IMO.
    Perhaps someone who has 6 years of education and $~95k salary year worth? LOL . Keep in mind there are no report cards or meetings really this week so there are definitely more 'crunch weeks' with a shit ton more hours.

    Also, I checked the calendar for my wife (you can access it here: https://www.rockyview.ab.ca/jurisdic...lcalendar/view). I know I am splitting hairs but they actually get 11 weeks off (2.5 months) so not 3 months.

    (You know I am just having fun at this point)
    Cos...

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    Quote Originally Posted by roopi View Post
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    There is no commodity to link the performance bonuses to in teaching. If oil goes from $60 to $80 we know that O&G employees earned those double meat subs.
    I can't tell if this is sarcasm

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cosworth View Post
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    I know you didn't ask me but there is a TON of prep for the younger grades. Easiest proof of this is watch teachers leaving at the end of the day from a primary school with bins and bins of stuff. Most teachers have some rubbermaid bin that they carry
    Is what a teacher carries from class an indication of their required workload? Or of their inexperience as a teacher? I know any teachers I had all through school, you could tell which ones created work for themselves and which ones had it figured out. The smart teachers would do their quick lesson plan on the days subject, then assign you in class work to do. And they would do their marking from the previous day during your in class work time. Whereas you would have the odd teacher that would spend an entire class dilly dallying with their lesson plan, and then assign you 2 hours of homework that they would then have to mark on their own time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pheoxs View Post
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    I think it's would be how things are structured in elementary vs high school.

    In elementary we always had the same teacher for all our classes so they would've had to prep each class. Versus high school where you have a math teacher that might teach two blocks of math 10, two of math 20, etc .... so there is more overlap.
    I don't know I've never seen that before. Just because I had a different teacher for 4 different blocks, doesn't mean that teacher is doing nothing for those other 3 blocks, they were just teaching 3 different classes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Misterman View Post
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    Can you elaborate on this one? How does a grade 10 teacher have more prep time during the day with their classes than a grade 1 teacher? I would think that since a grade 1 class requires literally zero prep, it would be easier to prep for.
    Junior High and High School have defined periods with a different teacher each period. You get at least 50 minutes a day, some get more, sometimes they get a little less.

    Elementary is all over the map. If there is a dedicated gym/music/etc teacher then you get that time as prep, otherwise just library time you may get prep. It completely depends on the school. But it is very little.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Misterman View Post
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    Is what a teacher carries from class an indication of their required workload? Or of their inexperience as a teacher? I know any teachers I had all through school, you could tell which ones created work for themselves and which ones had it figured out. The smart teachers would do their quick lesson plan on the days subject, then assign you in class work to do. And they would do their marking from the previous day during your in class work time. Whereas you would have the odd teacher that would spend an entire class dilly dallying with their lesson plan, and then assign you 2 hours of homework that they would then have to mark on their own time.
    I'm sure there is some of that. Especially teachers who teach Gr 3 for example for 15 years. But for example my wife brings home a container with:

    - Her long range plans
    - Her short range plans
    - The kids reading journals
    - The math stuff
    - The reading stuff
    - The marking for the day/week
    - The preparation for the next session of work.

    So it can be a couple hundred pieces of paper a week they have to go through.

    The other note about Primary vs High School prep, how many essays did you write as a kid in Gr.11 and Gr.12. While they're technically detailed and long winded, you have 2-4 a class a year? And they should all be fairly similar from a teacher perspective (how many differences in the French Revolution can you write). Where as in a day a Primary kid might do a reading journal, a math lesson, some science stuff, etc. So there can be daily work there compared to huge high school jobs.

    To be fair (to be faaair).... I am getting to the limit of my knowledge of this stuff. Haha.
    Last edited by The Cosworth; 01-14-2020 at 12:37 PM.
    Cos...

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cosworth View Post
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    To be fair (to be faaair).... I am getting to the limit of my knowledge of this stuff. Haha.
    Don't worry I'm sure misterman or some other beyond certified expert on education will help cover all the details lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu3000gt View Post
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    Same here - have lots of teacher friends and my mom was a teacher. GF is a nurse and I know several other nurses. I wouldn't/couldn't do either job for literally double what they get paid.
    Yeah and my guess is they wouldn't/couldn't do your job either (whatever it is).
    They chose that path for a reason, it's not like the job requirements are a secret.

    The public sector has always been protected from market metrics and for that you should be paid less for that security.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kobe tai View Post
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    Don't worry I'm sure misterman or some other beyond certified expert on education will help cover all the details lol
    Well we all know your knowledge ended before the thread began. But not to worry, your Ad Hominem attacks are making you appear very smart.

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    Hey now...

    Stop going after the teachers over sick days... This sounds like people who've forgotten the walking plagues that are crotchgoblins. Bloody kids bring home and share around every little bug/virus/bleh that goes around. If parents actually kept sick kids home rather than "you can walk you're going" - but that doesn't work for most parents who then can't take sick days to care for the younguns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cosworth View Post
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    Saturday: - 2-3 hours marking at home
    Sunday: 2-3 hours marking at home
    Monday: 745 - 400, 1 hour marking at home
    Tuesday: 745-400
    Wednesday: 730 - 5 (some meetings)
    Thursday: 730 - 4
    Friday: 730 - 330

    Assuming hour lunches and 6 hours on the weekend average, that's roughly a 43.5 hour work week? That doesn't seem unreasonable.
    Originally posted by SJW
    Once again another useless post by JRSCOOLDUDE.
    Originally posted by snowcat
    Don't let the e-thugs and faggots get to you when they quote your posts and write stupid shit.
    Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
    I say stupid shit all the time.
    ^^ Fact Checked

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    Quote Originally Posted by JRSC00LUDE View Post
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    Assuming hour lunches and 6 hours on the weekend average, that's roughly a 43.5 hour work week? That doesn't seem unreasonable.
    There are no lunches. At least not for my wife.

    Belltimes for my wifes school.

    8:25 - 1015 - in classroom
    1015 - 1030 - in classroom snack and announcements
    1030 - 1045 recess - teachers alternate supervision. If not on supervision would be a break I guess.
    1045 - 1215 - in classroom
    1215 - 1235 - Recess (same as above, alternate teacher supervises now).
    1235 - 1255 - in classroom lunch - teacher eats with the kids now
    1255 - 155 - in classroom
    155 - 210 - recess - alternate supervision back to morning person again
    210 - 336 - in classroom
    336 - get kids ready for bus. Busses leave at 345 I think

    As you can see break and prep time is either minimal or non-existent during the day. Then usually an hour of meetings, photocopying, calling parents, etc. Leave around 4/430 unless something serious comes up.

    Back when I went to school there were lunchroom supervisors, outdoor supervisors for watching the kids on recess, music teachers, art teachers, etc. With cuts there aren't may music teachers anymore, or gym teachers, so my wife does it all now.

    As for the weekly average I agree with you and I don't believe anywhere I've said it was unreasonably so. My whole point in this whole thread was that I think that the time off and the pay is fair for what they're expected to do. I'm just trying to help explain that the typical idea that a teacher clears $130,000, working 30 hours a week, with 16 weeks vacation a year and no stress isn't correct. I'm not advocating they have it any harder or better than anyone else. It's just different.
    Last edited by The Cosworth; 01-14-2020 at 02:19 PM.
    Cos...

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cosworth View Post
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    snip snap
    Oh I didn't think you'd said anything was unreasonable, I was just asking to fully understand the time commitment not to quarrel about it at all (shocking isn't it?!). That's interesting about the lunches, etc.
    Originally posted by SJW
    Once again another useless post by JRSCOOLDUDE.
    Originally posted by snowcat
    Don't let the e-thugs and faggots get to you when they quote your posts and write stupid shit.
    Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
    I say stupid shit all the time.
    ^^ Fact Checked

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    Quote Originally Posted by JRSC00LUDE View Post
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    Oh I didn't think you'd said anything was unreasonable, I was just asking to fully understand the time commitment not to quarrel about it at all (shocking isn't it?!). That's interesting about the lunches, etc.
    Haha I didn't think you did. I couldn't figure out how to word that properly without it sounding accusatory. Haha. Yeah I don't think they work as hard as Sr Management, Sr Project Managers, Investment Bankers. There is some serious stress and time commitment that those professions deal with. Teachers definitely don't but they also get 2.5 months off and might get to 6 figures because of it. So I think it is a fair lifestyle trade-off.

    Now, back to my stressful overworked underpaid management job. :P
    Cos...

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    From what I have seen, a teacher's stress and work level is largely dependent on the grade/subject they teach as well as the student demographic. On top of that you have every 'Karen' and entitled parent breathing down your neck, expecting you to work miracles with their kids so they don't have to put in any work at home (again, grade dependent and doesn't apply to everyone obviously).

    My mom worked in a school in a very low income area, and the parents were non-existent in many of the kids' lives, wouldn't sign homework, wouldn't come to parent teacher interviews etc. so I know she worked way harder knowing that, trying to give the kids the best chance. I have a friend who is a Jr. High School gym/PE teacher and he definitely doesn't work as hard as some other teachers haha.

    There's just lots of different scenarios. You can be wrangling 30 toddlers trying to keep them all safe and happy, you could be dealing with special needs kids, you could be getting shit on by Jr.High/High school kids who think it's funny to be disrespectful, etc.

    University profs seem to have it the easiest, viewed through my lens as a former student anyway - T/A does all the marking for you, and you just rip through some PowerPoint slides every class and recycle the same exams/quizzes every year haha. I'm sure there's more to it than that, but I don't know anyone who is a prof.

    Same deal with nurses - you can work for Health Link answering phones, or you can work in an Emergency Department where you get shit on all day (literally and figuratively) by crack heads, homeless people, and 99% of the other people who don't have an actual emergency or reason to be there at all. And everything in-between and the pay is the same. It's hard to paint either profession with one brush because within each job there are huge variances in workload, stress, type of work, personal safety level, etc.
    Last edited by Mitsu3000gt; 01-14-2020 at 03:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyL View Post
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    Hey now...

    Stop going after the teachers over sick days... This sounds like people who've forgotten the walking plagues that are crotchgoblins. Bloody kids bring home and share around every little bug/virus/bleh that goes around. If parents actually kept sick kids home rather than "you can walk you're going" - but that doesn't work for most parents who then can't take sick days to care for the younguns.
    I had a hard time wrapping my mind around the number of sick days until I read this. I think it's two sided as well.

    - The teachers constantly around sick kids - you realize the extent of this when your kids start going to school
    - What parents in 2020 would do if their kid got the flu from a teacher who could have stayed home

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    All my friends with kids, at least someone in their family is sick pretty well 100% of the time throughout the year. The younger kids seem to have a never ending runny nose as well. Teachers probably build up pretty good immune systems but that's a lot of chances to get sick haha.

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    Most people: "I can't wait to take a couple of weeks off from teh grind in the summer."

    Teachers: "I get three months off. BUT I HAVE TO TAKE IT ALL IN THE SUMMER!!"

    sigh.

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