Alberta public sector wages: 0% increase.

[ExtraSlow]

Nurses and teachers both awarded 0% wage increases by an arbitrator.
https://calgaryherald.com/news/polit...1-d1bb90e60ee2


We probably can't prevent this from devolving into left vs right name-calling, but let's try. We can all agree that these professionals are skilled and valued.

In terms of wages in Alberta vs other jurisdictions, how do nurses and teachers stack up? Is there any shortage of candidates or junior levels for either profession?

[Tik-Tok]

Does the "no raises" also mean no cost of living increases?

[killramos]

Well the arbitrator declared it so there must be some basis to it.

Sounds to me like they are lucky they didn’t get cuts.

[speedog]

I suppose this sucks for the people affected but as an independent subcontractor I never have the luxury of just getting some sort of annual increase, it is on my shoulders to either work more effeciently and/or procure jobs that pay better.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

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Does the "no raises" also mean no cost of living increases?

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what it means.

[Buster]

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I suppose this sucks for the people affected but as an independent subcontractor I never have the luxury of just getting some sort of annual increase, it is on my shoulders to either work more effeciently and/or procure jobs that pay better.

Don't forget that "those affected" are also struggling families paying taxes... And this is a positive for them

[dirtsniffer]

As far as I know our nurses and teachers are the highest paid in the country.

Each year as the person gains experience I believe moves up the grid and gets a higher wage. The ones at the top of the grid would not be getting any increases though.

Trade off for job security

[AndyL]

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I'm pretty sure that's exactly what it means.

Last I checked Cost of living is done at inflation rate, so yes - i've got a shiney nickle that says they'll get a COLA adjustment but no automatic raise.

But they took away COLA for Alberta works and AISH.

[redblack]

At least they still have jobs. Many of my friends have received 0% increases for the last while and/or laid off.

[JRSC00LUDE]

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At least they still have jobs. Many of my friends have received 0% increases for the last while and/or laid off.

The simpleton argument is they're just jealous they aren't/weren't in a Union!

[Type_S1]

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Does the "no raises" also mean no cost of living increases?

I read somewhere today that nurses and teachers will both continue to get yearly cost of living increases, this just means no raises on top of that. This seems very odd to me that the media would leave that detail out so I’m thinking it is not true - if anyone knows please share the details. If it is true they need to all shut-up and be happy. I’ve never heard of a job role that entitles you to both cost of living and raise every year...the premise of that is actually ridiculous, especially for unionized employees. I’ve been in O&G for awhile and in the good times the large majority of staff simply get a 1-2% cost of living increase, not raises. Since 2015 cost of living increases have been axed at most companies and most in Alberta are lucky if they didn’t take a voluntary wage decrease.

[The Cosworth]

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I read somewhere today that nurses and teachers will both continue to get yearly cost of living increases, this just means no raises on top of that.

No this isn't the case. There will be no increases unless moving on the scale or jobs.

[Cagare]

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As far as I know our nurses and teachers are the highest paid in the country.

Each year as the person gains experience I believe moves up the grid and gets a higher wage. The ones at the top of the grid would not be getting any increases though.

Trade off for job security

depends on pay grid position. Alberta starts higher than most, but the top of the grid is not the highest in the country.

[Type_S1]

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No this isn't the case. There will be no increases unless moving on the scale or jobs.

Good to know - it looks like people are spreading BS on cost of living increases still applicable.

So there will still be tenure based increases allowed? Do you know how often teachers get bumped pay grades?

Edit: nevermind, found the table posted online below. Those are pretty significant increases year over year. A 50%+ salary increase over 10 years for a unionized position seems more than fair. $100k as a teacher with all the extra time off compared to private sector and other government employees also seems pretty awesome. At this point with how bad O&G is I’m sure a ton of people would trade their $150k+ jobs for $100k government work with less stress, less time worked, and a guaranteed pension.

https://i.imgur.com/QVotDwQ.png

[kobe tai]

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I read somewhere today that nurses and teachers will both continue to get yearly cost of living increases, this just means no raises on top of that. This seems very odd to me that the media would leave that detail out so I’m thinking it is not true - if anyone knows please share the details. If it is true they need to all shut-up and be happy. I’ve never heard of a job role that entitles you to both cost of living and raise every year...the premise of that is actually ridiculous, especially for unionized employees. I’ve been in O&G for awhile and in the good times the large majority of staff simply get a 1-2% cost of living increase, not raises. Since 2015 cost of living increases have been axed at most companies and most in Alberta are lucky if they didn’t take a voluntary wage decrease.

Teachers had 1 col increase in the past 9 years. So they have basically been on a wage freeze for almost a decade.

- - - Updated - - -

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Good to know - it looks like people are spreading BS on cost of living increases still applicable.

So there will still be tenure based increases allowed? Do you know how often teachers get bumped pay grades?

Edit: nevermind, found the table posted online below. Those are pretty significant increases year over year. A 50%+ salary increase over 10 years for a unionized position seems more than fair. $100k as a teacher with all the extra time off compared to private sector and other government employees also seems pretty awesome. At this point with how bad O&G is I’m sure a ton of people would trade their $150k+ jobs for $100k government work with less stress, less time worked, and a guaranteed pension.

https://i.imgur.com/QVotDwQ.png

They still can. 6 years of post secondary (masters degree) followed by 10 years of experience and you can make 100k as a teacher. What are they waiting for?

[RX_EVOLV]

Yeah my friend's wife makes just over $100K as a spanish teacher and she's only 38. Seems kind of crazy to me.

[95EagleAWD]

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Yeah my friend's wife makes just over $100K as a spanish teacher and she's only 38. Seems kind of crazy to me.

“Only” 38? At what age is $100K appropriate lol?

My gf has been making over $100K at her government job for 3 years now; she’s 31. She’s been there for 9 years.

Seems about right to me.

[The Cosworth]

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Good to know - it looks like people are spreading BS on cost of living increases still applicable.

So there will still be tenure based increases allowed? Do you know how often teachers get bumped pay grades?

Edit: nevermind, found the table posted online below. Those are pretty significant increases year over year. A 50%+ salary increase over 10 years for a unionized position seems more than fair. $100k as a teacher with all the extra time off compared to private sector and other government employees also seems pretty awesome. At this point with how bad O&G is I’m sure a ton of people would trade their $150k+ jobs for $100k government work with less stress, less time worked, and a guaranteed pension.

https://i.imgur.com/QVotDwQ.png

There has been lots of threads where I've debated this ad nauseam so excuse me if I don't get into it a bunch again and again, haha. I'll answer your questions and give some info. I'm happy to answer more as well. This is my experience from both my wife and my parents / aunts uncles all teaching in the primary level for CBE and RVS.

So some general thoughts and answers to your points
- To be a teacher you either need to graduate from a B.Ed program (which can restrict your license and not all places have B.Ed programs anymore) or get a 'masters', technically a second major, to teach and get a certificate. You have to have practicum hours to get a license. Without the license, you legally cannot be in a room with the kids alone (education act).
- You must get and maintain a license to be a teacher. Similar to P.Eng or a Red Seal. This is part of the reason for P/L days and the convention. Hours towards maintaining it. They are not inter-provincial like Red Seal though. Hence why teachers have a harder decision moving provinces or out of country.
- Morning brain, I don't know what you mean about tenure increases. I'm going to say no. Once you hit the top of the scales that is it unless cost of living increases. Also there really isn't 'tenure' per-se like in a university. Just union seniority.
- The 'steps' are years of complete teaching experience. Off half a year for mat leave? Lose half a year.
- I wouldn't call that significant. Most union positions I've either hired for or negotiated seem to have 50-100% increase in less than 7 years. Not out of the norm but not crazy.
- The jobs are definitely stressful. Too much to get into. Can you be a dog fuck of a teacher? Yes. Do we all know of shit teachers? Yes. Is that the same in every industry? Yes. Can teachers get fired? Yes. Is it hard because union? Yes.
- The time kids are in the room =/= the time teachers need to work. I believe it is 32 or 36 hours instruction time right now. This means literally teaching the kids something. Not the 30 minutes for recess, not the 15 minutes in between. Then there are parent meetings, committees, clubs, sports (all a must since the board cuts and there aren't gym, music, art teachers anymore in the primary schools), marking, prep, etc. My wife goes back 6-8 days before the kids come back in August, she stays usually a week after the kids are done. The week in February is 1 day of meetings at the school, 2 days of conferences, then 1-2 days off making it a long weekend. My wife works about 50-60 hours a week normally and then around 70-80 hours at report card and parent teacher conferences time.
- Marking and prepping are not a well know sort of thing. There are codes and rules that must be followed. You can be audited by your admin's at any time (at least in CBE/RVS) and must show your short range and long range plans. It is a detailed plan on how to get every kid successful by the end of the year. They're updated quite often. That's typically one of the biggers jobs when people mean prep-time. (https://www.uleth.ca/sites/default/f...nTemplates.pdf) I believe that is per kid and must be 'up to date' at any time.
- Yes teachers are paid well here, I won't deny that. But so are most jobs. Teachers also need to afford housing. This is the same argument with nurses. If my wife could make similar money in her hometown in Saskatchewan (where our house just outside of Saskatoon would be 1/2 the price) I don't think they'd have as hard of a time attracting teachers.
- The guaranteed pension thing, well we will see, with the current changes there are no guarantees and since it is member funded (https://atrf.com/teacher/faq). If the government loses all the money in the fund, it will be the teachers who have to increase the contributions to make up the shortfall, not the government.

Our experience with what you're discussing
My wife graduated with a degree from the U of C and the 'after degree / masters' from St. Mary's in 2008, she has worked ever since either as a sub (1 year), temp (5 years) and it took her those 6 years to get a permanent position. She is step 7 this year. So I'll save you the math, took her 7 years to do her 6 years of education (my fault moving us to BC for my job) + 7 years of teaching AFTER getting her permanent (sub time doesnt count and temp only counts for part) and she makes $78,000 I think this year? So $5,600 a year of education and experience. For comparison sake, I'm about $9,000 per year of education / experience private sector. She will top out at $101,000 or something at age 40. Unless she goes into administration (which requires another degree, don't ask) that is where she will stop.

Both her mat leaves her benefits were canceled and we got no top up or contribution. We pay about $1k - $2k a year for her stuff in her classroom. Everything in the room except the computers, tables, and chairs are 'ours'. Kid rips a book? Guess we're heading to value village on the weekend to update her library. Changing from Grade 1 to 5 and have no stuff? Spending more money getting her class ready unless another teacher is giving her stuff. We regularly feed kids who don't have lunch as the school doesn't have a budget for 'spare food'. She pays between $800-$900 a month 'into' her pension so it isn't given to her. She works about 60 hours a week (she's actually in her office working right now) but yes she does get summers and 10 days at xmas off. Their benefits the last few years have been cut substantially.

Final thoughts
I think that about covers all the 'how teachers have it better arguments'. Haha. As I always say, her job is good, but she isn't rolling in $130,000 a year working 30 hours a week with 9 weeks off a year. Oh how I wish that was true. I regularly have to pick my kids up from Daycare because it will close before she gets home. Dealing with things that have happened during the day.

In the end, as I always say in these threads, there are shortage of 'good' teachers. If you have a degree and want to get on that gravy job, you're 2 years of school away from landing one of those sweet gigs. I truly believe the fantasy of being a teacher and the reality of being one is very different and that is why it is hard to get them. I don't know if it is still true but back when my wife started it was about a 50% retention rate in the first 5 years as a teacher.

I'm not complaining about it or looking for sympathy. We've talked about my wife going into the private sector. Even the savings on trip costs alone (leaving in April or May on a trip vs summer?). Her pay would be higher and standard of living most likely better. And yes some of what I mention about the classroom and us feeding kids is not something all teachers deal with, nor high school teachers, and yes they're paid the same. But you couldn't lock me in a room with a bunch of hormonal teenagers for a shit ton of money.


Edit: No I didn't make my wife write this, there might be stuff that is wrong being 'an outsider'. I know there are other teachers and teachers husbands on here who might have other input.

[Type_S1]

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There has been lots of threads where I've debated this ad nauseam so excuse if I don't get into it again. My wife graduated with a masters in 2008, has worked ever since, took 6 years to get a permanent position, shes step 7 this year. Both her mat leaves her benefits will canceled and we got no top up. We pay between $800-$900 a month into her pension. She works about 60 hours a week (she's actually in her office working right now) but yes she does get summers and 10 days at xmas off.

I think that about covers all the 'how teachers have it better arguments'. Haha. As I always say, her job is good, but she isn't rolling in $130,000 a year working 30 hours a week with 9 weeks off a year. Oh how I wish that was true.

Fair enough. Looking at the wages vs. education vs. time off vs. abundant supply of qualified teachers it seems to me that teachers are fairly compensated.

3 of my buddies wives are teachers in the US and 1 is a nurse. They are amazed at how much teachers/nurses make in Canada. In the US teachers make significantly less (think half) compared to Canada and nurses 30% less. Based on the little research I’ve done Canadian teachers are actually some of the highest paid in the world.

[The Cosworth]

Sorry I edited the shit out of the post when you quoted it. Hahaha.

I can't dispute your statement they're the highest paid in the world. I'd like to see data on that. Additionally I'd love to know what the typical engineer, project assistant, designer, drafter make in the world vs Alberta. I don't suspect it would deviate much either. I think Alberta is a weird micro-climate of massive average wages just from years of O&G jobs. I know when we gain or lose people to BC or Sask it is easily a 30% pay cut. The nice thing about those people moving away is usually they're 'going home' and can live near their parents on a $250,000 5 acre parcel of land mortgage free after selling their $550,000 mcmansion here.