Alberta public sector wages: 0% increase.

[The Cosworth]

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That's what I was referring to by vacation days and lack of flexibility. It is nice to have months off but as you said, you don't get to choose it. When chatting with my friend, my understanding was that she was responsible for getting a substitute teacher.

For sick days, I suppose it is idiosyncratic and depends on the individual but my friend cares about her students quite a bit so she makes a concerted effort to take care of herself and might even go to work sick if caught between a rock and a hard place.

Overall, I think people like to cite labour laws and work culture but sometimes these things don't align perfectly so I am just pointing that out. Teachers also have alot to catch up on if they're taking off a couple days to go on the mend.

But anyway, I digress. I think nurses and teachers are both underappreciated regardless of pay. That's my stance.

I assume there are different systems for subs but the one I am familiar with;

- If it is a personal day, you get 1 a year. You can take more off but you pay for the sub yourself. That might be what your friend was talking about.
- You get sick days, same as any union, after a while they start to request sick notes and then accomodation for sickness.
- Being on the sub list sucks, you work for Calgary and live in Tuscany. You're on call every morning from about 530/600 until 8am. You get a call at 730 and they say, we need a sub in douglasdale. You either take it or pass. If you pass too many times (doesn't matter why) you can be dropped down or dropped off the list completely.

[dirtsniffer]

But data obtained by the Herald through a Freedom of Information request indicate numbers may be on the rise again in 2014. Over a 12-month period (Dec. 1, 2013 to Dec. 1, 2014) CBE teachers claimed 62,307 sick days, an average of 10.2 days per teacher, costing the district about $20.5 million.

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...ays-since-2009

Doesn't sound like they stress sick time abuse if the average teacher has over 10 sick days in 42(?) Weeks.

The Alberta School Act grants teachers up to 20 paid sick days per year in their first year of employment. That increases to 90 paid sick days a year for teachers in their second and subsequent years, according to the ATA’s collective agreement with the CBE. A doctor’s note is required if more than three consecutive sick days are required.

It sounds like for every teacher that takes 0 sick days there is another that takes the full 20 days. Which would be 1 every 2 weeks?

[speedog]

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https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...ays-since-2009

Doesn't sound like they stress sick time abuse if the average teacher has over 10 sick days in 42(?) Weeks.

10 sick days in 42 weeks? I've maybe had 10 sick days in the past 20 years, just never get sick although I suspect a lot of those sick days really aren't sick days - my wife's sister will fully admit that she'd take a sick day because she just didn't feel like going into work (respiratory tech). I have never done a fake sick day, my longest time away from work was when I broke my back in 2005 and even at that, I was back at work for part days after three weeks off.

[The_Rural_Juror]

So. Where can I find this 550k McMansion?

[Misterman]

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https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...ays-since-2009

Doesn't sound like they stress sick time abuse if the average teacher has over 10 sick days in 42(?) Weeks.

Yeah but do you have a friend of a friend that is the hardest working teacher in all of Alberta? No? Information VOID!!

[killramos]

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https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...ays-since-2009

Doesn't sound like they stress sick time abuse if the average teacher has over 10 sick days in 42(?) Weeks.



It sounds like for every teacher that takes 0 sick days there is another that takes the full 20 days. Which would be 1 every 2 weeks?

Sick days and doctors appointments. My wife still subs for her friends and with a small circle she gets easily 1-2 days of work a week. Got a doctors appointment, might as well take a whole day off because you are getting a sub anyways.

- - - Updated - - -

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Yeah but do you have a friend of a friend that is the hardest working teacher in all of Alberta? No? Information VOID!!

This is where the hyperbole gets ridiculous, if you took half this thread at face value you would think Calgary Teachers work more than investment bankers.

[The Cosworth]

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Sick days and doctors appointments. My wife still subs for her friends and with a small circle she gets easily 1-2 days of work a week. Got a doctors appointment, might as well take a whole day off because you are getting a sub anyways.

- - - Updated - - -



This is where the hyperbole gets ridiculous, if you took half this thread at face value you would think Calgary Teachers work more than investment bankers.

Just to clarify it isn't might as well take the day off, the sub is paid for half day sub is the minimum I believe. Plus depending on the age of the kids it can be disruptive to come in for an hour or 3/4 of the way through a day. So they try and do the hand-over lunch or the whole day.

Also if you're insinuating that half of what I am saying is ridiculous I'd like to hear it. Especially since your wife subs.

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10 sick days in 42 weeks? I've maybe had 10 sick days in the past 20 years, just never get sick although I suspect a lot of those sick days really aren't sick days - my wife's sister will fully admit that she'd take a sick day because she just didn't feel like going into work (respiratory tech). I have never done a fake sick day, my longest time away from work was when I broke my back in 2005 and even at that, I was back at work for part days after three weeks off.

I know there are lots of old-timer jokes in here but this is actually something every industry is struggling with. We have people at my work who've had 20 years with no sick days. People know people get burnt out and sick anyways so the idea of 'coming to work sick' and sticking it out is actually flipping. People would rather sick people not be around. We have quite a few people now who we actually 'send home'. They're more issue having them at work than it is worth.

[killramos]

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Just to clarify it isn't might as well take the day off, the sub is paid for half day sub is the minimum I believe. Plus depending on the age of the kids it can be disruptive to come in for an hour or 3/4 of the way through a day. So they try and do the hand-over lunch or the whole day.

Also if you're insinuating that half of what I am saying is ridiculous I'd like to hear it. Especially since your wife subs

FWIW I do like your posts on the topic, way more rational and informed than most. That doesn’t mean that I also don’t think you are exaggerating how much your wife works at least a little.

I’ve said it before but: My experience knowing lots of teachers, including my wife while she was doing it, is very different from yours in that while there are select busy times the 60-80 hour work weeks you are quoting are far from the norm and are in fact very rare. My wife worked a second 10-20 hour a week gig while teaching, and it certainly wasn’t back breaking nor was she at the school all day every weekend, actually I can’t think of a single time she ever went into the school on the weekend I’m not even sure she had access.

I don’t know how we can reconcile the two contrary points, all I can do is convey what I have experienced and my thoughts on the matter.

My “might as well take a day off” comment literally stemmed from something my wife said about a sub job she booked YESTERDAY. This shit happens and is definitely common, though it doesn’t really fit your narrative.

[kobe tai]

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FWIW I do like your posts on the topic, way more rational and informed than most. That doesn’t mean that I also don’t think you are exaggerating how much your wife works at least a little.

I’ve said it before but: My experience knowing lots of teachers, including my wife while she was doing it, is very different from yours in that while there are select busy times the 60-80 hour work weeks you are quoting are far from the norm and are in fact very rare. My wife worked a second 10-20 hour a week gig while teaching, and it certainly wasn’t back breaking nor was she at the school all day every weekend, actually I can’t think of a single time she ever went into the school on the weekend I’m not even sure she had access.

I don’t know how we can reconcile the two contrary points, all I can do is convey what I have experienced and my thoughts on the matter.

My “might as well take a day off” comment literally stemmed from something my wife said about a sub job she booked YESTERDAY. This shit happens and is definitely common, though it doesn’t really fit your narrative.

You ever think your wife might have been one of those "lazy" teachers referenced in this thread?

[ExtraSlow]

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You ever think your wife might have been one of those "lazy" teachers referenced in this thread?

There's certainly a variety of motivations in teachers. But the current system doesn't reward extra effort, so really, is it lazy or smart? Now if there was a way to compensate teachers based on some kind of measurable outcomes, say in the form of performance bonuses, that's a system I could get behind.

[you&me]

My wife has several friends that are teachers.

Since we're rolling out the anecdotes, I can only think of a handful of times any of them have missed a weekend activity (kids play dates, birthday parties, dinner parties, etc) due to having to go into work... They're certainly not at the school from 9-5 every Saturday and Sunday like some in this thread are implying - because that's the minimum that working 80 hours a week would require...

I suppose they might all be "lazy teachers" like killramos' wife, but that would be a pretty big coincidence...

[ExtraSlow]

how hard a teacher works is totally irrelevant to the topic anyway. Let's face it, there will always be over and under performers. It's a simple fact that teaching is a desirable profession, and there are no shortage of well educated young adults working towards that career. There are pros and cons to every job, and teaching again, those are really well understood. Since the pay is public knowledge, the pay is clearly fine.

[The Cosworth]

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FWIW I do like your posts on the topic, way more rational and informed than most. That doesn’t mean that I also don’t think you are exaggerating how much your wife works at least a little.

I’ve said it before but: My experience knowing lots of teachers, including my wife while she was doing it, is very different from yours in that while there are select busy times the 60-80 hour work weeks you are quoting are far from the norm and are in fact very rare. My wife worked a second 10-20 hour a week gig while teaching, and it certainly wasn’t back breaking nor was she at the school all day every weekend, actually I can’t think of a single time she ever went into the school on the weekend I’m not even sure she had access.

I don’t know how we can reconcile the two contrary points, all I can do is convey what I have experienced and my thoughts on the matter.

My “might as well take a day off” comment literally stemmed from something my wife said about a sub job she booked YESTERDAY. This shit happens and is definitely common, though it doesn’t really fit your narrative.

Haha thanks. I am trying to just provide details. Fair enough about my comments, she truly does work a lot. Not saying she has to as well, I know that both my parents and my wife (and myself) over-work. For example this week this her hours at school are:

Saturday: - 2-3 hours marking at home
Sunday: 2-3 hours marking at home
Monday: 745 - 400, 1 hour marking at home
Tuesday: 745-400
Wednesday: 730 - 5 (some meetings)
Thursday: 730 - 4
Friday: 730 - 330

So that is about it. So yeah maybe she is working too much. Plus this week with the weather the kids don't get recess or lunch without her. Which is awful. LOL

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My wife has several friends that are teachers.

Since we're rolling out the anecdotes, I can only think of a handful of times any of them have missed a weekend activity (kids play dates, birthday parties, dinner parties, etc) due to having to go into work... They're certainly not at the school from 9-5 every Saturday and Sunday like some in this thread are implying - because that's the minimum that working 80 hours a week would require...

I suppose they might all be "lazy teachers" like killramos' wife, but that would be a pretty big coincidence...

Oh yeah I don't mean to say they work 9-5 x 7 days a week. She marked this weekend and spent maybe 3-4 hours. This is all at home though, so she rarely goes into the school.

[Cagare]

Yeah, that schedule lines up with my wife. Report card season which is 3 times a year adds another 10 hours a week likely.

The whole discussion around subs too is interesting. Sometimes it's just as much work to get a sub if you have to give them a detailed plan if you want them to accomplish anything. Too many days away from the classroom could mean you get behind on curriculum which just compounds more work later.

I think teachers are fairly compensated for the workload and stress associated with their work.

Government workers in general have no incentive to go above and beyond, and I think it's a bit of a problem. I saw the same issue when I worked in Municipal government. I don't think there are any solutions to this which the public would like, but it's part of the reason I no longer work in government.

[Swank]

Also consider that a grade 1 teacher and a grade 10 teacher would likely have different workloads. I expect marking 30 essays would take a lot longer than marking 30 monosyllabic spelling tests.

[rx7boi]

[Cagare]

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Also consider that a grade 1 teacher and a grade 10 teacher would likely have different workloads. I expect marking 30 essays would take a lot longer than marking 30 monosyllabic spelling tests.

Difference is that a grade 10 teacher gets prep time during the day whereas the grade 1 teacher likely doesn't, or if they do it's a very small amount of time.

[roopi]

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There's certainly a variety of motivations in teachers. But the current system doesn't reward extra effort, so really, is it lazy or smart? Now if there was a way to compensate teachers based on some kind of measurable outcomes, say in the form of performance bonuses, that's a system I could get behind.

There is no commodity to link the performance bonuses to in teaching. If oil goes from $60 to $80 we know that O&G employees earned those double meat subs.

[Misterman]

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Difference is that a grade 10 teacher gets prep time during the day whereas the grade 1 teacher likely doesn't, or if they do it's a very small amount of time.

Can you elaborate on this one? How does a grade 10 teacher have more prep time during the day with their classes than a grade 1 teacher? I would think that since a grade 1 class requires literally zero prep, it would be easier to prep for.

[pheoxs]

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Can you elaborate on this one? How does a grade 10 teacher have more prep time during the day with their classes than a grade 1 teacher? I would think that since a grade 1 class requires literally zero prep, it would be easier to prep for.

I think it's would be how things are structured in elementary vs high school.

In elementary we always had the same teacher for all our classes so they would've had to prep each class. Versus high school where you have a math teacher that might teach two blocks of math 10, two of math 20, etc .... so there is more overlap.