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Thread: Alberta public sector wages: 0% increase.

  1. #161
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    Assumptions versus what I know.

    I know when I last worked at HELUS that my number of days worked per year was around 192 but I didn't make near what a top teacher did despite being at the top of the ladder of all unionized positions in HELUS.

    I know that I would not want to be a teacher because I would not have the patience to deal with the parents, the kids I could probably deal with but not the parents and I don't mind that teachers make a decent wage

    I know that I would not want to work any position in a dental office that involved looking into/working in someone's mouth, fucking gross and I don't mind that those people make a decent wage.

    I know that I now make far more money than I ever have in the past, plus an active HELUS pension income doesn't hurt, but I do work far longer hours than I ever have in the past but my stress levels are much reduced from anything I've done in the past as well - a great trade off is what I know.

    I know that I have to tip my hat to my eldest kid for trying to become a full time teacher, it's a path my wife and I never expected him to follow and he'll be great at it.

    I know that there are a lot of twats in this thread who are too full of themselves and who are far too quick to shat on those in certain professions because they think they know better. Now this could be considered an assumption on my part but I truly believe comments in this thread by others are proving otherwise.

  2. #162
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    I never thought that there would be so many people, especially those who aren't in the profession, who would be arguing about what the job is actually worth. Why would you even compare how many "working hours" a teacher has relative to a corporate gig?

    I'm not seeing tons of people jumping to become either of those (I'm sure we all have our reasons for why we didn't/haven't), so to say some teachers can't/shouldn't make $100k+ is a bit ridiculous. These numbers aren't anything new and I'm sure there are harder (and easier) ways to $100k, than being a teacher.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu3000gt View Post
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    I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but a lot of people don't want their time off in the summer. The most popular travel destinations in July/August are usually really expensive, really crowded, and really hot. Personally I never travel in the summer because it's the best weather we get in Calgary and I want to be here for it haha. I want to be gone when the weather sucks, prices aren't 2-3X worse and I don't spend my whole holiday waiting in lineups (dramatic, but you get the point). If you have kids, you are pretty well limited to summer/Christmas/spring break travel anyway though as it mirrors the teacher schedule.

    Perhaps a more interesting question would be how many people would, at their current job whatever it may be, trade 4-5 weeks of discretionary holiday for ~10 weeks of designated holiday. I personally wouldn't do it but I'm sure it would work well for some others.
    Not sure if you've worked a job that required scheduling and picking vacation around other employees or not? But literally every job that operates in this manner, it is a fight to get July and August time off. Virtually everyone wants their vacation in that time.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Cosworth View Post
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    Potatoe potato? I said they get 11 weeks off a year so that shouldn't be a shock. Lets add up and compare a teacher to a normal salaried employee. So someone did the math earlier for me and said that my wife will work 43.5 hours this week week (+5 hours non-lunch that was removed). So 48.5 hours. Round up to 50 to be fair for flex, report cards, easy math, etc? So if a normal 5 day week, to get 50 hours a week, they are 'working' average 10 hour days.

    Normal salaried employee (1965 hours a year)

    For a teacher I counted 12 PL, org, and convention days. Then you have to add in the 6 stats.

    If you work 1965 hours a year (typical salaried employee as we said earlier) that works out to 196.5 days of work a teacher must do at the 10 hours. If there are 252 working days a year as you say (didn't check, don't doubt you though), take off the 61 days (11 weeks vacation (and at least 4 of these are stats don't forget (Canada Day, Xmas, etc) but we can ignore that and the 6 stats) that equals 191 days.

    So really, in the end what we're saying is teachers get 1 extra week off the whole year? 191 working days vs 196.5 working days? Also, I think the 1965 calculation doesn't include vacation as 1965 / 252 is 7.8 hour days. I bet you talk to a payroll person and they tell you it is some stat thing. So now, average person gets what, 3 weeks vacation? So 15 days? So therefore the average person should work 180.5 days. So the teacher on average puts in 11.5 days MORE now?



    They're mandatory for license and the schoolboard is paying for them. Now whether they're enforced is another thing. I know those teachers who got caught on the news drinking at James Joyce didn't look like they went to convention.
    You're making a very big assumption that regular salaried employees don't take work home with them at all, but somehow giving teachers credit for that time. And the average salaried employee won't get anywhere near teacher salaries.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misterman View Post
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    You're making a very big assumption that regular salaried employees don't take work home with them at all, but somehow giving teachers credit for that time. And the average salaried employee won't get anywhere near teacher salaries.
    It's true, but my salaried employees also get to bank OT or pay it out and it seems fairly common in other industries. If you're on a transition or crunch time and although your salary you're accommodated for that time somehow.
    Last edited by The Cosworth; 01-15-2020 at 07:53 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cosworth View Post
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    It's true, but my salaried employees also get to bank OT or pay it out and it seems fairly common in other industries. If you're on a transition or crunch time and although your salary you're accommodated for that time somehow.
    Just going to throw this out there. But this is a bad assumption to make.

    That sounds far more like some kind of City of Calgary or Union gig.
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  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    Just going to throw this out there. But this is a bad assumption to make.

    That sounds far more like some kind of City of Calgary or Union gig.
    You could be right. Most people I know have these baked into their agreements though

    - Utilities
    - Shaw
    - Helus
    - Private equity firm (transition team gets OT when on the road).
    - Stantec
    - Another small engineering firm (would rather not name).
    - City job (of course)

    Pretty much anything you can 'charge to an order' either VIA a client or to a project I've always found you are paid or bank what you work if you work longer. Granted I have very little experience in O&G.
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    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    Just going to throw this out there. But this is a bad assumption to make.

    That sounds far more like some kind of City of Calgary or Union gig.
    Its not a bad assumption.

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    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    Just going to throw this out there. But this is a bad assumption to make.

    That sounds far more like some kind of City of Calgary or Union gig.
    I think its a fine assumption. It's hilarious to me that some rich engineer owner determined that their little peon engineers are not allowed to get OT or banked time when they get their designation,yet still get to bill their clients for the time.. That being said, lots of non-engineers in the province..

  9. #169
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    In any sense, ExtraSlow's assessment seems spot on to me. There obviously isn't a compensation issue with teachers. If the conditions or pay was so terrible, there wouldn't be so much more supply of labor than there is demand. It's hard to expect a pay raise because you're so hard done by, or because you feel the job you do is incredibly important, when there is a thousand people waiting in line to do your job for the same pay.

    Personally if I was that perturbed about my working conditions or pay(all of which I was well aware of prior to entering the industry), I'd be examining other opportunities. Maybe it feels like a waste to flush a 4-6 year degree down the toilet. But what is another 2 years at that point? You could learn to brush peoples teeth for a living in 2 years and be making 50+$/hr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cosworth View Post
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    It's true, but my salaried employees also get to bank OT or pay it out and it seems fairly common in other industries. If you're on a transition or crunch time and although your salary you're accommodated for that time somehow.
    But getting paid for OT is irrelevant in your scenario calculation which focused on comparing the working hours and not compensation relative to the working hours.

  11. #171
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    8-5 work day with 1hr lunch? I wish.

    It takes a certain type of person to be a good teacher (and I have a lot of respect for those who are), but it is certainly not on the demanding end of the scale (esp considering the decent pay in relation to how many weeks off they get).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Misterman View Post
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    In any sense, ExtraSlow's assessment seems spot on to me. There obviously isn't a compensation issue with teachers. If the conditions or pay was so terrible, there wouldn't be so much more supply of labor than there is demand. It's hard to expect a pay raise because you're so hard done by, or because you feel the job you do is incredibly important, when there is a thousand people waiting in line to do your job for the same pay.

    Personally if I was that perturbed about my working conditions or pay(all of which I was well aware of prior to entering the industry), I'd be examining other opportunities. Maybe it feels like a waste to flush a 4-6 year degree down the toilet. But what is another 2 years at that point? You could learn to brush peoples teeth for a living in 2 years and be making 50+$/hr.
    Maybe this is the whole crux, I'm not saying they're underpaid and deserve more and are a bunch of mother theresa's. I am just saying I feel like the current compensation is fair and balanced. The whole conversation seemed to me at least, that teachers are highly over-paid for their work hours and responsibilities and further cuts should occur. I'm just trying to show I think that isn't the case. There seems to be enough people who want to become teachers, but not too many, which to me says it is fairly balanced on pay / expectations.

    Quote Originally Posted by cjblair View Post
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    8-5 work day with 1hr lunch? I wish.
    Regardless of the rest of this thread that sucks bro.

    Quote Originally Posted by never View Post
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    But getting paid for OT is irrelevant in your scenario calculation which focused on comparing the working hours and not compensation relative to the working hours.
    Good point, yeah I missed that.
    Last edited by The Cosworth; 01-15-2020 at 09:29 AM.
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  13. #173
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    So layoffs happened at the CBE...

    And now they're hiring again. Apparently budgets have been finalized and they have more money than they thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by suntan View Post
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    So layoffs happened at the CBE...

    And now they're hiring again. Apparently budgets have been finalized and they have more money than they thought.
    The layoffs never happened at CBE I thought. Wasn't this announced a few weeks ago or are you referring to new layoffs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by roopi View Post
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    The layoffs never happened at CBE I thought. Wasn't this announced a few weeks ago or are you referring to new layoffs?
    Layoffs happened. My kid's friend's mom got laid off last week. She's going to re-apply for the same job that just got posted.

  16. #176
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    Can confirm layoffs did happen. Multiple people at the school I know of.

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