Novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV/COVID-19)

[Buster]

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I'm still surprised at the lack of focus to protect the most vulnerable, the elderly. (Yes, I understand that young people can get sick too.) Cases are going up which isn't good but more concerning, hospitalization and ICU patients are increasing along with the death count. Reading the daily updates, the death counts are predominantly from nursing homes and long term care centres, this seems to be continuous.

From the Alberta website:
Summary
Average age for COVID cases that died is 82 years (range: 27-106)
Average age for COVID cases hospitalized with an ICU stay is 61 years (range: 0-89)
Average age for COVID cases hospitalized is 62 years (range: 0-104)
Average age for COVID cases not hospitalized is 36 years (range: 0-108)

74% of Hospitalizations are over the age of 50. 59% over 60.
79% of ICU patients are over the age of 50. 62% over 60.

Outbreak data also continues to point at very specific facility types
Calgary Outbreaks ~55/82 are longterm care or supportive living centres
Edmonton Outbreaks ~60/87 are longterm care or supportive living centres


A lot of people want more restrictions and to further lockdown and close down malls, schools and businesses etc. With that being said, has there been enough done previously and currently to protect this vulnerable demographic? The same vulnerable demographic is expected to get the vaccine first, and I agree with this, but it doesn't appear that there has been much of a focused response for this demographic and or the workers who interact with them. On that note, maybe the workers are now wearing biohazard suits upon entry to minimize the probability of bringing the virus into these centres? I doubt the seniors are heading to the mall, Costco or local high school and catching the virus there.

Flame suit on.

Not sure what you mean by protecting. We now know that the virus isn't transmissible for a long time...a few days at most. But during that time it is highly transmissible. One of the most we have seen, other than maybe measles.

[rage2]

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I'm still surprised at the lack of focus to protect the most vulnerable, the elderly. (Yes, I understand that young people can get sick too.) Cases are going up which isn't good but more concerning, hospitalization and ICU patients are increasing along with the death count. Reading the daily updates, the death counts are predominantly from nursing homes and long term care centres, this seems to be continuous.

From the Alberta website:
Summary
Average age for COVID cases that died is 82 years (range: 27-106)
Average age for COVID cases hospitalized with an ICU stay is 61 years (range: 0-89)
Average age for COVID cases hospitalized is 62 years (range: 0-104)
Average age for COVID cases not hospitalized is 36 years (range: 0-108)

74% of Hospitalizations are over the age of 50. 59% over 60.
79% of ICU patients are over the age of 50. 62% over 60.

Outbreak data also continues to point at very specific facility types
Calgary Outbreaks ~55/82 are longterm care or supportive living centres
Edmonton Outbreaks ~60/87 are longterm care or supportive living centres


A lot of people want more restrictions and to further lockdown and close down malls, schools and businesses etc. With that being said, has there been enough done previously and currently to protect this vulnerable demographic? The same vulnerable demographic is expected to get the vaccine first, and I agree with this, but it doesn't appear that there has been much of a focused response for this demographic and or the workers who interact with them. On that note, maybe the workers are now wearing biohazard suits upon entry to minimize the probability of bringing the virus into these centres? I doubt the seniors are heading to the mall, Costco or local high school and catching the virus there.

Flame suit on.

I have family in long term care, and they’ve locked down as much as they can. No visitors. There’s an outbreak there and it’s brought in by staff and volunteers. I feel there’s not much more they can do aside from doing a NHL style bubble, which is logistically impossible for one, let alone all care homes. So ya, I don’t feel there’s a lack of focus whatsoever.

[ThePenIsMightier]

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I have family in long term care, and they’ve locked down as much as they can. No visitors. There’s an outbreak there and it’s brought in by staff and volunteers. I feel there’s not much more they can do aside from doing a NHL style bubble, which is logistically impossible for one, let alone all care homes. So ya, I don’t feel there’s a lack of focus whatsoever.

The lockdown you're speaking of isn't provincially mandated, though. In fact, it's vehemently resisted by family members of those same elderly residents.

It's crazy pills.

[90_Shelby]

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I have family in long term care, and they’ve locked down as much as they can. No visitors. There’s an outbreak there and it’s brought in by staff and volunteers. I feel there’s not much more they can do aside from doing a NHL style bubble, which is logistically impossible for one, let alone all care homes. So ya, I don’t feel there’s a lack of focus whatsoever.

You could put care workers on a 15 and 6 rotation and house them in camps. On shift they don’t leave camp or the nursing home. When coming back after 6 days off, treat it like a flight back to Canada, tested first, 2 days isolation, back to work. No idea how this suggestion compares to the NHL bubble.

Considering what this pandemic has cost, I see no reason why something like this couldn’t be done. Keep in mind I don’t work at a home therefore I have no expertise on how they are currently managed but I don’t agree that there’s not much more that could be done. There’s a solution, it just costs money.

Hypothetically, if we were doing a better job protecting the vulnerable, sorry Buster I’m sticking with that word, I wonder how the public response would be to the pandemic with similar case count but significantly lower deaths, hospitalizations and ICU patients.

[Buster]

Rapid antigen testing would work great

[Kloubek]

The more entry, the more covid could hit. The first line of defense right there.

But I can appreciate people wanting to see their elderly loved ones. When they are that old, anything can happen and nobody wants their parent dying alone. My parents are also getting on to a lesser degree but neither are healthy anymore. I'll certainly be happy when I can see them again myself...

[JfuckinC]

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You could put care workers on a 15 and 6 rotation and house them in camps. On shift they don’t leave camp or the nursing home. When coming back after 6 days off, treat it like a flight back to Canada, tested first, 2 days isolation, back to work. No idea how this suggestion compares to the NHL bubble.

Considering what this pandemic has cost, I see no reason why something like this couldn’t be done. Keep in mind I don’t work at a home therefore I have no expertise on how they are currently managed but I don’t agree that there’s not much more that could be done. There’s a solution, it just costs money.

Hypothetically, if we were doing a better job protecting the vulnerable, sorry Buster I’m sticking with that word, I wonder how the public response would be to the pandemic with similar case count but significantly lower deaths, hospitalizations and ICU patients.

As if nursing home staff are going to love to a camp lifestyle though lol they’d all quit I bet

[rage2]

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Rapid antigen testing would work great

That’s what F1 is doing, but covid is still sneaking into the paddock. Difference is they contact trace and remove everyone deemed close contact. Can’t do that in a home. First outbreak at ours was in the dementia ward. Pretty much game over instantly.

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As if nursing home staff are going to love to a camp lifestyle though lol they’d all quit I bet

This. I mean with enough money you can fix it. Multiply that with all the care homes. That still doesn’t solve reducing hospitalization that we’re seeing now. It’s not all old people being hospitalized.

I’m pretty much numb to it all at this point. Like my parents say, whatever happens happens. Lost my godmother to covid at the start back in April. Just accepting whatever happens now.

[Buster]

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That’s what F1 is doing, but covid is still sneaking into the paddock. Difference is they contact trace and remove everyone deemed close contact. Can’t do that in a home. First outbreak at ours was in the dementia ward. Pretty much game over instantly.


This. I mean with enough money you can fix it. Multiply that with all the care homes. That still doesn’t solve reducing hospitalization that we’re seeing now. It’s not all old people being hospitalized.

I’m pretty much numb to it all at this point. Like my parents say, whatever happens happens. Lost my godmother to covid at the start back in April. Just accepting whatever happens now.

Rapid antigen tests would be good for preventing covid from getting into the home in the first place.

[rage2]

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Rapid antigen tests would be good for preventing covid from getting into the home in the first place.

That’s what I’m saying, f1 uses those tests. Have to be negative before you’re allowed in the paddock. Still slips through.

[ThePenIsMightier]

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That’s what F1 is doing, but covid is still sneaking into the paddock. Difference is they contact trace and remove everyone deemed close contact. Can’t do that in a home. First outbreak at ours was in the dementia ward. Pretty much game over instantly.


This. I mean with enough money you can fix it. Multiply that with all the care homes. That still doesn’t solve reducing hospitalization that we’re seeing now. It’s not all old people being hospitalized.

I’m pretty much numb to it all at this point. Like my parents say, whatever happens happens. Lost my godmother to covid at the start back in April. Just accepting whatever happens now.

LoL! We're not talking about specialty physicians and nurses, here. Millennials view the elderly as the least desirable patients in the entire gamut, by a factor of ten!
HCA's are running the show in this segment, and it's a segment that is drawing the lowest of the low.
HCA's can literally choose to not feed some of these people and the AUPE will back them up IF they are ever caught or disciplined.
Let me repeat. The AUPE will back up HCA's choosing to not feed elderly people, if they are caught. This segment of care is the most dysfunctional in healthcare because it's both in public hospitals and a host of radically varying private options.

It's really simple for all of us, right now. During CoVid? Don't get hit by a car or severely injured under any circumstances, whatsoever!!!
In the medium to longer term? Don't. Get. Old.

[90_Shelby]

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As if nursing home staff are going to love to a camp lifestyle though lol they’d all quit I bet

Simple, pay them more. The same way Alberta filled thousands of oil field positions over the past 15-20 years when times were good. We’d have people from across the country flocking to our nursing homes to work.

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This. I mean with enough money you can fix it. Multiply that with all the care homes. That still doesn’t solve reducing hospitalization that we’re seeing now. It’s not all old people being hospitalized.

I’m pretty much numb to it all at this point. Like my parents say, whatever happens happens. Lost my godmother to covid at the start back in April. Just accepting whatever happens now.

Alternatively, we do nothing to further protect the elderly and vulnerable, and we can continue to complain that the government isn’t doing enough. I’m simply not convinced that further shutting down schools, businesses, malls, and enforcing non compliance mask wearing and hockey games is the solution to help those that need it most. I don’t see how this wouldn’t have an effect on current hospitalizations etc. The public data shows where the outbreaks are and the age of the people who are most effected.

Maybe we could stop all inner household gatherings as well and force all individuals to their bedrooms unless they have to go to the washroom or get a snack? Alternatively, maybe people should chill out and recognize that whatever happens, happens. I can’t say I disagree with that statement.

I’ll go back to arguing about Trackhawks now.

[rage2]

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Alternatively, we do nothing to further protect the elderly and vulnerable, and we can continue to complain that the government isn’t doing enough. I’m simply not convinced that further shutting down schools, businesses, malls, and enforcing non compliance mask wearing and hockey games is the solution to help those that need it most. I don’t see how this wouldn’t have an effect on current hospitalizations etc. The public data shows where the outbreaks are and the age of the people who are most effected.

Maybe we could stop all inner household gatherings as well and force all individuals to their bedrooms unless they have to go to the washroom or get a snack? Alternatively, maybe people should chill out and recognize that whatever happens, happens. I can’t say I disagree with that statement.

I’ll go back to arguing about Trackhawks now.

Oh I agree with you here.

[killramos]

For all the money we are spending my vote is send in the military to take over the care homes.

The staff are the problem, so get rid of the staff. They can go staff the covid tents instead.

[ThePenIsMightier]

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Simple, pay them more. The same way Alberta filled thousands of oil field positions over the past 15-20 years when times were good. We’d have people from across the country flocking to our nursing homes to work.



Alternatively, we do nothing to further protect the elderly and vulnerable, and we can continue to complain that the government isn’t doing enough. I’m simply not convinced that further shutting down schools, businesses, malls, and enforcing non compliance mask wearing and hockey games is the solution to help those that need it most. I don’t see how this wouldn’t have an effect on current hospitalizations etc. The public data shows where the outbreaks are and the age of the people who are most effected.

Maybe we could stop all inner household gatherings as well and force all individuals to their bedrooms unless they have to go to the washroom or get a snack? Alternatively, maybe people should chill out and recognize that whatever happens, happens. I can’t say I disagree with that statement.

I’ll go back to arguing about Trackhawks now.

It's nice to disagree or debate with someone who isn't crazy. +Rep

[ExtraSlow]

Currently old age homes are staffed like Wal-Mart, in terms of pay and employee treatment. That's the model. Paying them 3x or more is certainly an option if we are going to make more demands on them.

This has exposed one of the weaknesses in the health care system. I hope we can have a more honest debate about how to fix it going forward.

[adam c]

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For all the money we are spending my vote is send in the military to take over the care homes.

The staff are the problem, so get rid of the staff. They can go staff the covid tents instead.

What an ignorant thing to say, my wife is one of those nurses taking care of peoples parents in long term care homes and everyone is on edge, nobody wants to bring it into work and nobody wants to bring it home to their family, they sure as hell don’t get paid what you most likely think they do and they aren’t protected by aupe

A lot of long term care facility if not all had their funding cut by the UCP and are running on limited staff, nobody had full time hours because they need quantity or workers now as if someone is sick they need to isolate and that means other staff need to be available

Everyday my wife signs a contract that she’s not around people outside of our house

But whatever fuck health care workers

[killramos]

So the staff are bringing COVID into nursing homes because we aren’t paying them enough? Or because they aren’t protected by a union?

Sounds to me like staff are a problem. And I am proposing a solution.

But yea ucp ucp ucp blah blah blah.

[duaner]

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Simple, pay them more. The same way Alberta filled thousands of oil field positions over the past 15-20 years when times were good. We’d have people from across the country flocking to our nursing homes to work.



Alternatively, we do nothing to further protect the elderly and vulnerable, and we can continue to complain that the government isn’t doing enough. I’m simply not convinced that further shutting down schools, businesses, malls, and enforcing non compliance mask wearing and hockey games is the solution to help those that need it most. I don’t see how this wouldn’t have an effect on current hospitalizations etc. The public data shows where the outbreaks are and the age of the people who are most effected.

Maybe we could stop all inner household gatherings as well and force all individuals to their bedrooms unless they have to go to the washroom or get a snack? Alternatively, maybe people should chill out and recognize that whatever happens, happens. I can’t say I disagree with that statement.

I’ll go back to arguing about Trackhawks now.

You aren't suggesting that mask usage shouldn't be enforced, are you? What of those care home staff who simply couldn't isolate in a camp due to other obligations? What about the hundreds of thousands of elderly and vulnerable who aren't in care homes, many of whom still must work? There are many people, both young and elderly, who have the same comorbidities as those in care homes, they just don't need the physical care. If mask usage and distancing aren't enforced, it puts many vulnerable (and non-vulnerable) people at risk.

[jutes]

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For all the money we are spending my vote is send in the military to take over the care homes.

The Ontario and Quebec mission cost $53mil. Doubt an Alberta deployment along with a vaccine role-out can both be done at once. There are only so many medical staff available, Alberta is on its own.