Novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV/COVID-19)

[finboy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

There actually is a reason for this.

It's because of Fauci.

His career has been mostly about creating an AIDS vaccine. AIDS bypasses the immune system, so there's no way for someone to get "natural immunity" for it.

So he used the same logic for this disease. Until I presume somebody close to him pointed out that his AIDS experience wasn't relevant to this disease.

He really needs to be executed.

Partially, I’d also put a heavy consideration on worldwide trump hatred at the time as well. The knee jerk reaction of people doing the opposite if what trump did really might be what caused covid policy to drag on so long, it really locked in a base of voters for democrats and people around the world who were appalled by the idea that trump existed as president.

Falls in line with the Canadian mentality of “if America does it, it must be bad, therefore I must do the opposite to show I’m better than America”

[JRSC00LUDE]

Anyone who still thinks anything was done right is pretty stupid. You'll be able to identify them by their being the first ones to clamor for masks and lockdowns again this winter.

Except they're may actually be too busy losing their house to care this time.

[OTown]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Partially, I’d also put a heavy consideration on worldwide trump hatred at the time as well. The knee jerk reaction of people doing the opposite if what trump did really might be what caused covid policy to drag on so long, it really locked in a base of voters for democrats and people around the world who were appalled by the idea that trump existed as president.

Falls in line with the Canadian mentality of “if America does it, it must be bad, therefore I must do the opposite to show I’m better than America”

Canada is basically the US, just 10 years behind.

[zipdoa]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Natural immunity!

If only someone had mentioned that was a possibility!

Wow!

Exclamation points!

Lol, I remember Thepenismightier recommending sentry to get two jabs right after sentry recovered from Covid. The vax hysteria was/is remarkable.

The fact that prior infection doesn’t qualify you for a ‘vaccine passport’ is troubling. The fact that we still have vaccine mandates isn’t helping institutional trust.

[ThePenIsMightier]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Lol, I remember Thepenismightier recommending sentry to get two jabs right after sentry recovered from Covid. The vax hysteria was/is remarkable.

The fact that prior infection doesn’t qualify you for a ‘vaccine passport’ is troubling. The fact that we still have vaccine mandates isn’t helping institutional trust.

Doesn't sound like me.

[TurboMedic]

For some perspective because I know the discussion that is happening, I do want to clear a couple of things up......

First off, the numbers look disproportionate, just because of the sheer difference. This does not mean that 2900u/ml was low....Early on in testing they didn't give values over 2500u/ml, because that number was really the majority anyhow.....I can't find my old post anymore for some reason, but I'll put the quote in here again on the values to give some "value" to the numbers...

-We have re-tested all samples that reached the prior maximum value of 2500, such that the actual value is now available. Among CORSIP participants, the median Spike result is 1400 (i.e. 50% of people have values above this); 10% of have values >7500, and 1% have values >50,000

So you can see here that my initial antibody values were actually quite normal, and among my peer group when we compared values, was quite high.

Of course there is likely something to be said for what the body produces over a lengthy moderately severe illness, vs. a relatively brief small exposure to the MRNA protein. I would expect 3 weeks of battle to have a starkly different impact on your immune values. What I don't know is, is that commonly proportionate, so say for example would someone with a very mild (ie: asymptomatic, or minimally symptomatic case) have proportionally lower antibodies....Keep in mind I had what was medically considered a severe case....My rational mind would say yes, that the proportional factor would be true, so not all cases of COVID would make you build super antibodies like I did....and maybe my numbers aren't really spectacular, I don't have a basis for comparison....There's also the time factor, my test was near immediate after my recovery, when my antibodies would be at their literal peak.

I think vaccination is still important, it does affect everyone differently and impacts some more than others. You wouldn't know your individual effectiveness unless you were to get serial testing done, I'm fortunate to have the opportunity to partake in this, which is why I'm happy to share it with you. My post 2x vaccination antibody levels were considered quite high still, even at the 7 month mark post, and cannot be understated by the emergence of my post infection and 3rd dose antibody value, again I have no idea what they were pre infection and post 3rd dose so the microscopic snippet of data is incomplete to draw conclusions on (or confirm or deny your biases). It is just information to digest casually in a "that's neat" kind of way.....I'm excited to see what the published results of all of the participants will be whenever that comes



Anyhow.....stay healthy everyone

[ExtraSlow]

Thanks TM you've been a very reasonable voice for us through this confusing time.

[DonJuan]

I don't know why some guys rag on TM. Has more official medical knowledge than everyone on here and works in the field daily.

I value his info.

[Kloubek]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Natural immunity!

If only someone had mentioned that was a possibility!

I think everyone knew, but I personally had heard little information as it pertained to the comparison of protection and longevity between natural infection, and the vaccine. As we all saw, the government pushed the vaccine hard, but at least given the limited data from TM, it seems to indicate the vaccine is only fractionally as protective as an actual natural infection. That IS news to me, and could absolutely play into someone's comfort level being around bunches of people if they have little fear re-infection is likely to cause any significant problems.

[schurchill39]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

That's actually crazy. So the first TWO doses gave you a small amount of antibodies remaining after that 7 month period, but only a fraction of what you attained via natural generation after you became infected. TBH, I expected natural infection to be better at antibody creation, but I had no idea it would be over 30X the antibodies. Now granted, it had 7 months to dissipate from your first 2 doses, but when you took your third test (and also 7 months later) it was still 10X stronger than with the original 2 doses. Discounting the possibility that the antibodies created by your body are probably BEST suited to fight the infection over a vaccine, it still appears to have some 10X the staying power when you are actually infected over the vaccine.

Effectively, this seems to indicate that even a 6 month booster is inadequate if one wishes to keep their antibody levels up. It would have to be more like every 3-4 months for decent protection, and even then it pales in comparison to actually getting infected.

So. Who's up for a Covid party?

I think your observations are totally fair from a pure number value but I guess I would question what do they mean? Just because a natural infection gave 30X antibody over the vaccine does that mean the vaccine is ineffective or does the vaccine provide adequate protection for those who have not been infected, but if you've been previously infected and come out the other side of it you're obviously that much better off?

Maybe this is my inner dad brain reasoning with it but I like to think about it like horsepower in a truck. If a "vaccine truck" has 1500 hp and the "natural immunity truck" has 30x that, is it really noticeably different to pulling a 23ft holiday trailer (a mild covid case for most of the population) out to the lake? They are both better than you're crazy drunk uncle's clapped out 1997 Chevy Silverado (no vax, just bud light) for the majority of the situations. That being said, I'm not a rocket surgeon and medical journals confuse me especially when they try to make blanket statements that include statistics but I do know that anything is better than bud light.

Personally I've got 3 shots and got covid back in June. It sucked pretty bad and I am still dealing with some really annoying effects 2.5 months later but I couldn't imagine how much worse off I'd have been had I not had any immunity at all.

I think we are far enough down this path where the pandemic is behind us and if people choose to wear masks, or get the shot, or what ever else then great. We all have that ability to make that choice as long as we aren't being assholes to other people in the process. If you're sick stay home and for god sake wash your hands.

EDIT: I also acknowledge that feeding into any Zenops or SportsEL post is just as crazy as their posts in and of themselves.

[Kloubek]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Maybe this is my inner dad brain reasoning with it but I like to think about it like horsepower in a truck. If a "vaccine truck" has 1500 hp and the "natural immunity truck" has 30x that, is it really noticeably different to pulling a 23ft holiday trailer (a mild covid case for most of the population) out to the lake?

EDIT: I also acknowledge that feeding into any Zenops or SportsEL post is just as crazy as their posts in and of themselves.

Yes. It's a dangerous game.

You might be right - maybe just having a capable truck could be enough. To be fair to the nay-sayers, it doesn't appear the vaccines have a significant ability to reduce the chances of infection as originally hoped. However, if my knowledge of how MRNA vaccines is correct, the idea is to teach the body via immune response on how to make the proteins responsible for generation of that specific antibody. I would imagine that having the extra antibodies like TM did saves the body from having to generate them itself, which by all rights should reduce longevity and severity, but ultimately any reasonable amount of antibodies SHOULD be acceptable to help reduce symptoms because your body has already learned and will make more when the time comes.

I really would be interested to know what the "magic number" range of antibodies is. Because as you point out, we can take the numbers for face value, but they don't mean much unless we understand what the body actually *requires* to successfully defend itself.

[ExtraSlow]

There's several goalposts here.
A) Reducing "some" serious health impacts of infection.
B) Reducing "most" serious health impacts of infection
C) reducing your chance of getting the infection some statistically significant amount.
D) reducing your chance of getting the infection to nearly zero.

The vaccines have accomplished A and B, and some people say they have accomplished C. We all wish they accomplished D, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Now did some people say they should accomplish D? Was that the messaging from some authorities? Maybe it was, and that was an error or a falsehood, but it doesn't make the vaccine any less beneficial in an overall perspective.

- - - Updated - - -

What level of antibodies required to accomplish D is an interesting question, but probably not something that's possible to know.

[ZenOps]

I always found needle injections for airborne transmitted viruses to be strange.

Realistically if you had a 24 hour erection, you wouldn't try to fix it by tickling the feet.

Likewise, if you really want to mimic said virus, it should technically be a nose spray. Or am I crazy?

https://www.webmd.com/children/vacci...ot-nasal-spray

Pulp Fiction Spoiler alert.

[rage2]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I always found needle injections for airborne transmitted viruses to be strange.

Realistically if you had a 24 hour erection, you wouldn't try to fix it by tickling the feet.

For those ignoring this one’s worth it.

[SportEL]

Pregnant Women Suffered Spontaneous Abortions During Pfizer Vaxx Trials, FDA Covered it Up

- the revelation was exposed in documents unsealed by a FOIA request

- news comes more than a year after vaxx received Emergency Use Authorization

- in the 3600 adverse events records from axx trails are hidden details about birth defects and lost pregnancies

- 22/50 pregnant women who took part in the trials lost their babies due to spontaneous abortions and miscarriages

- Pfizer took the deaths of the babies and recategorized them as recovered-resolved adverse effects. They were aware of the rate of death by April 2021 and were silent.

- Despite that the FDA tried to keep the results hidden from the public for 75yrs, however a federal judge responded to a lawsuit ordering the release of 12K docs and 55K pages a month until all 300K pages are realized to the public

https://slaynews.com/news/pregnant-w...da-covered-up/

[schurchill39]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

or am i crazy?

qft

[zechs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

, but it doesn't make the vaccine .

I'll stop you right there; if its not a vaccine, doesn't perform like a vaccine, OR does not have the effects that a colloquially referred to "vaccine" is expected to have ( an immunization aka immunity), then maybe, just maybe...

Don't call it a fucking vaccine? Oh, and just so there is no confusion over the definition of a vaccine:

A vaccine is a biological preparation that provides active acquired immunity to a particular infectious disease

As for B, provide data that demonstrates it reduces "most" serious health impacts? In what, one out of one hundred people?

"Most" people have no complications or "serious health impacts" from covid to begin with.

[ExtraSlow]

Eye will cull it de jab oak-a dumde.

[ZenOps]

Tuberculosis leaves a quarter sized scar on the lungs, the exact point of first contact with the body. I got the multi-shot vaccine way back thirty years ago. It produced a scar on my arm that has never healed.

Point of first contact is of extreme importance. If the first contact happens to be on the heart because of mistaken aspiration - the argument to be made is that it might be slightly more damaging than if it hit the lungs first. Arguably the best place to have first contact is the fat cells on pinkie toe, if the scarring is so severe - you could always just chop that sucker off.

[DonJuan]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I always found needle injections for airborne transmitted viruses to be strange.

Realistically if you had a 24 hour erection, you wouldn't try to fix it by tickling the feet.

Likewise, if you really want to mimic said virus, it should technically be a nose spray. Or am I crazy?

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Tuberculosis leaves a quarter sized scar on the lungs, the exact point of first contact with the body. I got the multi-shot vaccine way back thirty years ago. It produced a scar on my arm that has never healed.

Point of first contact is of extreme importance. If the first contact happens to be on the heart because of mistaken aspiration - the argument to be made is that it might be slightly more damaging than if it hit the lungs first. Arguably the best place to have first contact is the fat cells on pinkie toe, if the scarring is so severe - you could always just chop that sucker off.

Isn't this counter to the your previous post? If as you say first point of contact is important and scarring at the site of exposure the same whether from vaccines or from virus then better have it on the arm than in your nose or lungs. Also, I'm pretty sure arm is for access to blood supply, slow release stuff they inject into fat cells or pinky toes may take a while for the dose to filter into the blood stream.



TM way want to weigh in on the treatment of 24h erection, but my ultra basic understanding is if it won't go away, increasing blood flow to any other part of the body is the best course of action. Tickling feet may be a thing.