Novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV/COVID-19)

[TurboMedic]

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I think everyone knew, but I personally had heard little information as it pertained to the comparison of protection and longevity between natural infection, and the vaccine. As we all saw, the government pushed the vaccine hard, but at least given the limited data from TM, it seems to indicate the vaccine is only fractionally as protective as an actual natural infection. That IS news to me, and could absolutely play into someone's comfort level being around bunches of people if they have little fear re-infection is likely to cause any significant problems.

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I think your observations are totally fair from a pure number value but I guess I would question what do they mean? Just because a natural infection gave 30X antibody over the vaccine does that mean the vaccine is ineffective or does the vaccine provide adequate protection for those who have not been infected, but if you've been previously infected and come out the other side of it you're obviously that much better off?

And this is exactly what I was trying to caution about in my second post....Lots of numbers being bandied around, but its the perfect case of cherry picking numbers.......

value 1 7 months after vaccine......not knowing what it was 2 weeks after, maybe it was 10x as high as well?
value 2 2 weeks after infection, not knowing what it was before infection and after 3rd dose 3 months prior
value 3 7 months after infection, before 4th dose, this is probably the best representation, so 10x not 30x antibody generation.....

That's why I say I would be wary of saying that one is substantially better than the other without having those values within the same timelines in a like for like scenario...I assume when the data in the study gets released it will have all of those variables available for interpretation, I just wonder if it will take so long that it will be just a retrospective information dump vs relevant info anymore

[Kloubek]

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The vaccines have accomplished A and B, and some people say they have accomplished C. We all wish they accomplished D, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Now did some people say they should accomplish D? Was that the messaging from some authorities? Maybe it was, and that was an error or a falsehood, but it doesn't make the vaccine any less beneficial in an overall perspective.

I absolutely recall at least an implication from the government that "D" was attainable. When there was all that talk of "flattening the curve", I think it was believed that by almost everyone getting their vax would result in too few to infect and then the virus would die off. That was clearly incorrect, although I DO believe even the scientists were hopeful that would occur. Of course, insisting on vaccines still helped us, as the load on the medical system was and has been greatly reduced via less severe and lengthily cases, if nothing else.

Now that the panic has subsided, I'd be curious to see how many are willing to get a bi-annual booster indefinitely. I still haven't gotten my 3rd, and am kind of on the fence between rolling the dice with a weaker strain like Omicron or starting such a regimen.

[Buster]

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There's several goalposts here.
A) Reducing "some" serious health impacts of infection.
B) Reducing "most" serious health impacts of infection
C) reducing your chance of getting the infection some statistically significant amount.
D) reducing your chance of getting the infection to nearly zero.

The vaccines have accomplished A and B, and some people say they have accomplished C. We all wish they accomplished D, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Now did some people say they should accomplish D? Was that the messaging from some authorities? Maybe it was, and that was an error or a falsehood, but it doesn't make the vaccine any less beneficial in an overall perspective.

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What level of antibodies required to accomplish D is an interesting question, but probably not something that's possible to know.

stop making so much sense in response to these well thought-out posts criticizing the vaccines.

[ExtraSlow]

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I'd be curious to see how many are willing to get a bi-annual booster indefinitely.

I am the kind of person who normally gets the influenza shot, and I can forsee being willing to get annual shots for covid, particularly if they were available in the same appointment. Twice a year doesn't seem like something I will be volunteering for.

As far as the "debate" about past actions of the government, I'm not going to defend much of it. I think the messaging was poor, and the motivation shifted over time to a mostly political one. It's really unfortunate.

I'm extremely pro-vaccine, or pro-immunization, or pro-jab, or whatever the hell you want to call it. I got three, and I'm happy I did, even with the benefit of hindsight.

[sabad66]

People have really short memories clearly. The jabs did a great job at blocking infection for the initial strain which was one of the more deadly variants. But then it mutated, and D in ES’ post was no longer reality.

I got COVID twice this year - once in April and again in July. Would I get another booster of the current jab today? Nope. Do I regret getting the jabs? Also no. it was the right decision at the time and that’s all that matters.

[2Legit2Quit]

I'd get a booster if it were for any current strain at the time, America seems to be ahead of Canada on that.

Wife had covid last week, started to feel bad last Monday, tested positive the next day.

She felt pretty crummy for a couple days then a day of sore throat and nasal congestion.

Was back to normal'ish over the weekend and good to go Monday, tested negative today.

I tested myself 3 times, when she first tested, then a few days later and then today - all negative.

Not sure how/why I felt normal the entire time she was sick, I figured I'd be hooped eventually but nada.

Covid still lame as fuck.

[SportEL]

1249 Athlete Heart Attacks, 847 Dead, Since Last Year

- 1249 Young healthy athletes had sudden heart attacks or other serious issues since last year, and among them a staggering 847 have died

- The list shows a huge spike in major medical issues among mostly young athletes that started soaring in early 2021

- Data for the preious year shows only a fraction of sudden death and serious health complications for young athletes

- To compare there was1,101 sudden death to young athletes over 38 Years Total

- As of Aug 22, Good Sciencing has recorded 847 deaths, 46 in the mon of July alone.

- The data shows a major spike after athletes had received their Covid Vaxx

--> https://slaynews.com/news/1249-athle...nce-last-year/
===

It has been confirmed that LTC Goshen died after having a heart attack during a routine physical fitness test while deployed to Romania. When a servicemember dies from a heart attack, the Army now classifies that death under “natural causes.”

All these weird "sudden" heart attacks and deaths. My oh my, what could it be?

[killramos]

You said his name one too many times and now look what happened.

[ZenOps]

Sharp got around to pushing their Plasmacluster technology again, In Europe.

In North America they seem to have taken a path that it can create substances that are lung irritants. Which is true, the negative and positive ions can just as easily destroy any living molecules they touch - including skin and lung cells. But arguably its 100x less than standing outside in UV sunlight, at least for skin.

I've got the plasmacluster, and I swear by it. Especially whatever ions are released when "blue" instead of "green" indication.

[SportEL]

Covid Vaxxx Destroys Natural Immunity in NEJM Study (New England Journal of Medicine)

- the effectiveness of the Pfizer vaxx becomes negative (meaning the vaxx'd are more likely to be infected than the unvaxx'd) within 5 months but the vaxx destroys any protection a person has from natural immunity.

- the unvaxx'd keep their protection from prior infection but the vaxx'd end up with negative efficacy even if they have been previously infected. This means the vaxx appears to demolish a person's natural immunity and leave him or her more vulnerable to infection than he or she was before

- it is clear it was a mistake to rush mRNA vaxx tech to the public and that the vaxx be taken out of use and into the research phase until their effects and safety are better understood

Study ---> https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2209371

We knew this Aug of last year with the Israel Study showing that Natural immunity was stronger and longer lasting than the Vaxx, which I had posted here. This becomes clear more and more every day. And now we're seeing from the Study that the vaxx destroys any protection a person has from natural immunity.

[DonJuan]

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supersized nothing burger combo with a head shake

Fantastic article @SportEL . I have no idea where you came up with YOUR conclusions however, as the article you drew conclusions from specifically states the opposite and shows the need for boosters and effectiveness of the vax as being marginally better than actual infection against re-infection.

"The immunity acquired from SARS-CoV-2 infection was high, although it waned over time. Among unvaccinated children, the estimated effectiveness of omicron infection against reinfection with omicron was 90.7% (95% CI, 89.2 to 92.0) at 2 months and 62.9% (95% CI, 58.8 to 66.6) at 4 months (Figure 1C and Table S4). Among vaccinated children, the estimated effectiveness of omicron infection alone against reinfection with omicron was 94.3% (95% CI, 91.6 to 96.1) at 2 months and 79.4% (95% CI, 73.8 to 83.8) at 4 months" Lin 2022 et al. Fig below.



"Both the BNT162b2 vaccine and previous infection were found to confer considerable immunity against omicron infection and protection against hospitalization and death. The rapid decline in protection against omicron infection that was conferred by vaccination and previous infection provides support for booster vaccination.
Lin 2022 et al.

Your article has provided the best evidence I've seen FOR vax and booster shots to prevent re-infection and best evidence of vaccine safety in kids that 15 of the 273,157 vaccinated children were hospitalized and none died. Compared to 887,193 unvaccinated children of which 309 hospitalized and 7 died.

Yes I know he's not going to reply. Yes I know I'm replying to a troll. I feel it's more for everyone else's benefit.

[zipdoa]

Vinay Prasad with some solid logic on boosters:


https://twitter.com/VPrasadMDMPH/sta...6XNJSSLWXLtMzA

An annual COVID19 mRNA not is *NOT AT ALL LIKE* an annual flu shot, a small list of differences

1. It is far more reactogenic
More people take a day off work/ way more AEs than flu

2. Flu vax tries to predict FUTURE North America strains, BA4/5 are PAST strains...

No one tries to vaccinate people who already just had the *exact same strain* of flu with the flu shot, and yet now CDC pushes BA4/5 in people who just had BA5

3. COVID19 IFR is currently LESS LETHAL than flu, particularly for the young

4. Maybe, just maybe, we could do... A better job with flu. Each year, we rely of flawed test neg. case control studies to estimate flu vaccine efficacy, which often yield awful, pitifully low estimates despite the upwardly biased methodology.

Perhaps, just as phones advance, evidence can advance... We could do a whole lot better if we had more, larger randomized trials of flu shots. These can run in the southern hemisphere and inform the northern one. We do not need to be wedded to a suboptimal paradigm.

5. It is a novel platform (mRNA) there are still unknown unknowns.

6. The FDA commish didn't routinely lie about the evidence for the flu shot

There is no evidence a bivalent booster means you will be able to attend more gatherings, just his imagination talking

7. FDA officials did not resign over the flu shot

8. The people making decisions regarding the flu shot did not exhibit a pattern of gross incompetence

The White House Needs New COVID Advisors
The current cast has made too many mistakes

9. The White House never said that it is really important to get the flu shot before the midterm election-- i mean halloween-- did I say election?

10. FDA didn't usually work for the marketing arm of Pfizer, and Pfizer didn't usually make 50 billion off the back of perpetual boosters
FDA turned into drug promoter instead of regulator. They are acting like used car or timeshare salesman. I thought this was more attributable to doctors promoting some untested cactus juice or magic bracelet on TV trying to sell it with white coat and "MD" after their name.

11. Paul Offit didn't usually say he wasn't going to get the flu shot.

In short comparing a novel mRNA booster tested in 8 mice for a strain of covid tens or hundreds of millions have already had for a virus with sweeping age gradient & IFR less than flu to flu, in a politicized climate where FDA is run by incompetent political hacks is flawed. FIN

[suntan]

It's the vaccine equivalent of Malibu Stacy's new hat.

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People have really short memories clearly. The jabs did a great job at blocking infection for the initial strain which was one of the more deadly variants. But then it mutated, and D in ES’ post was no longer reality.

I think there was nothing in time for the initial strain, delta had arrived and became dominant by the time widespread vaccination was occurring.

Delta and every other widespread strain were actually probably the result of mitigations.

Funny how these strains spread so fast despite us all hiding in our houses.

[suntan]

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Partially, I’d also put a heavy consideration on worldwide trump hatred at the time as well. The knee jerk reaction of people doing the opposite if what trump did really might be what caused covid policy to drag on so long, it really locked in a base of voters for democrats and people around the world who were appalled by the idea that trump existed as president.

Falls in line with the Canadian mentality of “if America does it, it must be bad, therefore I must do the opposite to show I’m better than America”

Trump started Operation Warp Speed to create the vaccines. Not sure what you're trying to say.

[ThePenIsMightier]

Guarantee I'm the only one that thought this, but that doesn't mean I'm not right!



=

[suntan]

Nice fucking crop job.

[killramos]

I’ll allow it

[DonJuan]

I think the bad crop job makes the post even better

[ThePenIsMightier]

It looked dumb as clean cropped because you lose the context that it's from the earlier post.

[SportEL]

Covid Vaxx 100x More Likely to Cause Injury to Young Adults Than Prevent it

- Renowned British and American scientists have found the Covid Vaxx are 100x more likely to cause serious injury to young adults than prevent hospitalization from the virus

- Researchers analyzed the US centers for Disease Control and Prevention's data from the Vaccine Adverse Roports System (VAERS)

- The analysis estimates that for every Covid1 hospitalization prevented in previously uninfected young adjults, 18 to 98 "serious adverse events" will occur

- That includes 1.7 to Booster associated Myocarditis cases in males and 1,37 5o 3,4 of serious injuries interfering with daily activities

- the actual risk benefit profile is even less favorable due to the high level of natural immunity following infection in the population


---> https://slaynews.com/news/covid-shot...prevent-study/


By going back to the NEJM Study from my prior post, the Charts indicate the great protection that Natural immunity provides against infection, that even after 8 months for the delta variant, the effectiveness is still very much in positive territory at over 50%. Also, the natural immunity against earlier variants wanes slowly and remains positive after 16 months.

Comparing that with the Charts showing those who have been vaccinated who go through a sharp decline within 5 months after the first injection into negative territory. That includes those that have been previously infected and then who have been vaxx'd goes into sharp negative territory within 5 months. Remember when they said it would be more stronger protection to get a vaxx even when previously infected? Hahaha. The actual data don't lie. Yet authors of the study says that the vax provides high protection even with the rapid decline in protection and that it provides support for booster. Hahaha. What a joke.

They also forgot to consider the risk with the Negative Side effects of the vaxx too, I guess!