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Thread: Novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV/COVID-19)

  1. #18941
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    your ego is undeserved and unearned.
    If you have some alternative logic based on unreleased info none of us are privy to, I'm all ears to change my mind.

    But so far the events went like this.
    -We got locked down, to stretch things out and exacerbate the "need" for a vaccine.
    -The original strain was the deadly one, and only deadly to specific miniscule portions of the population.
    -vaccine came out literally right before we transitioned to a strain that is equivalent to the sniffles.
    -Vaccine did not prevent spread, which was the entire basis of why the vaccine was valuable in the first place according to our "leaders"


    So again, where is the equivalent value in line with the cost of this project?

  2. #18942
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    Quote Originally Posted by redline View Post
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    The available vax is the same one since the beginning… there is a new one coming in the fall that covers variants.
    So you're basically buying a new Acura Integra when the new one with a front face lift will be out soon. To put it in beyond.ca terms

  3. #18943
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misterman View Post
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    If you have some alternative logic based on unreleased info none of us are privy to, I'm all ears to change my mind.

    But so far the events went like this.
    -We got locked down, to stretch things out and exacerbate the "need" for a vaccine.
    -The original strain was the deadly one, and only deadly to specific miniscule portions of the population.
    -vaccine came out literally right before we transitioned to a strain that is equivalent to the sniffles.
    -Vaccine did not prevent spread, which was the entire basis of why the vaccine was valuable in the first place according to our "leaders"


    So again, where is the equivalent value in line with the cost of this project?
    Dont mix your concerns with public policy with the advantages of having a vaccine. They're two separate discussions and your view on one irrationally colors your view on the other.

  4. #18944
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    Dont mix your concerns with public policy with the advantages of having a vaccine. They're two separate discussions and your view on one irrationally colors your view on the other.
    Stop that and answer me instead.
    Is the vaccine still the same as original?

  5. #18945
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePenIsMightier View Post
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    Stop that and answer me instead.
    Is the vaccine still the same as original?
    I’ve heard they no longer let Huawei do 5G, but it is otherwise the same.
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
    Originally posted by Toma
    fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yolobimmer View Post
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    guessing who I might be, psychologizing me with your non existent degree.

  6. #18946
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    Life expectancy in Canada in;

    2019- 82
    2020- 82
    2021- 82

    The juice was not worth the squeeze

  7. #18947
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePenIsMightier View Post
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    Stop that and answer me instead.
    Is the vaccine still the same as original?
    AFAIK they have not altered the vaccine.

  8. #18948
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    AFAIK they have not altered the vaccine.
    Doesn't that seem odd, considering the annual changes they make for Influenza?
    (Yes, flu comparisons are poor, but not really in this case.)

  9. #18949
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePenIsMightier View Post
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    Doesn't that seem odd, considering the annual changes they make for Influenza?
    (Yes, flu comparisons are poor, but not really in this case.)
    I dont see any reason for that to strike me as odd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    I dont see any reason for that to strike me as odd.
    Flu vaccines are selected to target the strains/variants that are expected to come based on the best available data. That doesn't seem odd.
    Expecting people to take a 4th dose of a vaccine for a virus that has already mutated about 6 times since the vaccine was developed seems odd. What protection can it still offer when the virus has evolved seemingly significantly over the past 19 months?

  11. #18951
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePenIsMightier View Post
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    Flu vaccines are selected to target the strains/variants that are expected to come based on the best available data. That doesn't seem odd.
    Expecting people to take a 4th dose of a vaccine for a virus that has already mutated about 6 times since the vaccine was developed seems odd. What protection can it still offer when the virus has evolved seemingly significantly over the past 19 months?
    What data can you present which would indicate that a Flu vaccine strategy is appropriate for a covid vaccine?

    You are making at least three dubious assumptions in your post:

    1. Flu vaccines are modified every year, which is not unusual for a vaccine
    2. the covid vaccine does not benefit from additional doses based on its mechanism of action
    3. additional variants of the virus will always result in a reduction in vaccine efficacy

    and I'll even throw in a 4th

    4. The implicit claim that we have the ability to modify the vaccine easily and without reducing its efficacy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    What data can you present which would indicate that a Flu vaccine strategy is appropriate for a covid vaccine?

    You are making at least three dubious assumptions in your post:

    1. Flu vaccines are modified every year, which is not unusual for a vaccine
    2. the covid vaccine does not benefit from additional doses based on its mechanism of action
    3. additional variants of the virus will always result in a reduction in vaccine efficacy

    and I'll even throw in a 4th

    4. The implicit claim that we have the ability to modify the vaccine easily and without reducing its efficacy
    I am likely guilty of assuming 1 which is probably inaccurate. Perhaps the flu vaccine is the only one where this is done. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be done for a much more serious virus like coronavirus, though.

    I don't believe I was assuming 2. Boosters will certainly reduce the spread and severity of the virus from 2020.

    3 is not dubious, is it? The virus is actively mutating to survive better and eventually thrive in the presence of the vaccine. It is The Germans figuring out how to get past the Maginot Line. Words to live by: let's not be France.

    4 is certainly true in that I bet it's extremely difficult. I'd feel more confident if it was common knowledge that the brilliant people at Moderna, etc were spending every waking hour trying to solve this problem. Are they? Or are they satisfied with their seemingly infinite sales stream for their 2020 product? I'm concerned it's the latter.

  13. #18953
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePenIsMightier View Post
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    I don't believe I was assuming 2. Boosters will certainly reduce the spread and severity of the virus from 2020.
    This is the type of claim that requires data otherwise it is an assumption.

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    Concerns about the need for boosters now is a totally different discussion than my original point which was that the vaccines that were rolled out helped greatly reduce the risk of severe outcomes at the times they were rolled out and for some significant time afterwards.

    I also hope for an updated vaccine, but while I'm waiting I'm at a lower risk of ending up in the hospital. I think that's great.

  15. #18955
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    Dont mix your concerns with public policy with the advantages of having a vaccine. They're two separate discussions and your view on one irrationally colors your view on the other.
    Yeah that's what I thought. Don't crack Busters fragile emotional wall he has built around this issue.

  16. #18956
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    Buster is in a glass case of emotion.

  17. #18957
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misterman View Post
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    Yeah that's what I thought. Don't crack Busters fragile emotional wall he has built around this issue.
    Whatever this point is, it's not a compelling argument for your position.

  18. #18958
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSlow View Post
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    I also hope for an updated vaccine, but while I'm waiting I'm at a lower risk of ending up in the hospital. I think that's great.
    That's all current vaccine and the 4th shot campaign is hoping for. Everybody is gonna get it, probably multiple times a year, just keep them out of hospitals if we can help it.

    Also @TPiM, UK just approved Moderna's Spikevax that tackles original and BA.1 and will be used in the fall campaign.
    Last edited by Xtrema; 08-16-2022 at 08:34 AM.

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    https://www.businessinsider.com/mode...iphones-2022-8

    I think comparing a vaccine to an iphone is less about features and more about a CEO rubbing his hands together over an annualized revenue stream.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cagare View Post
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    https://www.businessinsider.com/mode...iphones-2022-8

    I think comparing a vaccine to an iphone is less about features and more about a CEO rubbing his hands together over an annualized revenue stream.
    I hope the next vaccine has 4 cameras.

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