Novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV/COVID-19)

[Buster]

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Like India. But it never ends for them either, just subsided. If you look at their death counts, it never dropped back to the pre wave 3 days.

Again, I have no problem for people to have choices. But we should also have a choice in not letting those choices ruining our collective lives.

This half ass vaccine passport check won't help our businesses and won't stop anything since there is no proof like BC/QC where it's verified against a dataset. It's just lip service.

The vaccine passport is not designed to limit spread. It wouldn't be very effective. It's designed to convince more unvaccinated fence sitters to go get vaccinated. All of our actions at this point are incremental gains towards vaccination.

[flipstah]

I think the no jab = no job policy seems to be the best one so far.

[FraserB]

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Increase taxes on smokes to a value that covers off cost of healthcare on said patients. Quick google search says it costs Canada $6.5B a year.

If that’s the cost of smoking, then tobacco taxes already more than cover that cost.

[nzwasp]

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Like India. But it never ends for them either, just subsided. If you look at their death counts, it never dropped back to the pre wave 3 days.

Again, I have no problem for people to have choices. But we should also have a choice in not letting those choices ruining our collective lives.

This half ass vaccine passport check won't help our businesses and won't stop anything since there is no proof like BC/QC where it's verified against a dataset. It's just lip service.

How are they doing it in Ontario?

[vengie]

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With stats like 4% of those who catch covid are hospitalized, or 1% make it into the ICU, you really shouldn't be worried to begin with.

Thats based on 18,400 active cases, and we know that number is underreported because you can have covid and not know it. The hospital numbers also don't account for how high hospitalizations are in much older age groups relative to their smaller population proportion. By taking out people over the age of 70, you effectively cut those % in half.

2% of people who catch covid are hospitalized. 0.5% make it to ICU. For shits and giggles, lets say that decreases by another 50% for double vaccinated.

We are well below the threshold for it to matter to anyone, especially since we now know masks don't do anything and vaccine passports certainly won't do anything either.

Let alone being vaccinated. Of course, vaccine effectiveness is down to 60% already after two shots and dropping rapdily.

With 70% of Albertans double vaccinated, R0 is still over 1.0.

Really makes a person wonder. Curious as to when the direction changes and people are finally sick of all of this, its becoming clearer there is no miracle bandaid.

If R0 doesn't drop below 1.0 with everyone vaccinated, then what? What if vaccine efficiency drops further?

The problem isn't the total number of cases, its the total number of people in the ICU.

Our health system simply can't handle the volume of people in ICU to the point where they are pushing off other life altering surgeries for people because they don't have the room.

To me, that is the biggest condemnation towards the anti-vax crowd (among MANY other things). Their poor choices are directly affecting the health and well being of thousands of Albertan's waiting for surgeries and they will now need to wait longer as the wait list continues to grow and be pushed back.

Get over yourselves, its selfish as fuck.

AHS, anti vaxxers and to a slightly lesser extent, the government, are all to blame.

[zechs]

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When those other conditions/activities over run the healthcare system and when they can be virtually cured or eliminated by taking a needle we can talk about those other topics as well.

(edit: I realize you're speaking for the dumb anti-vaxers)

Those people already DO overrun our healthcare system. The vast majority of health issues clogging up our system which even at the best of times is claimed to be stretched (without covid) are because of people's choices.

We've been there for a long time.

Interesting how the unvaxxed are being treated like they deserve it, even though through no action of their own, they are infected by someone else.

We should probably punish sick people who spread it. Amazing how in two years, they haven't been able to develop a quick test that is reliable for daily use.

The onus should not be on the ones who aren't sick. Thats the most twisted part of this. I'm all onboard the victim blaming train though, homeless people, drug addicts, and rape victims. All their fault.

We wanna throw antivax in there, I can get behind it.

The mental gymnastic and lack of conviction in some people in these threads is staggering. Pick a lane people. Just remember, eventually it'll come back on you in ways you don't want.

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Get over yourselves, its selfish as fuck.

Society doesn't have a responsibility to care about you. Individual people certainly don't. Being alive is selfish to the dead, being rich is selfish to the poor, you demanding somebody do something for your own interests strikes me as pretty selfish

But hey, to each their own

[Buster]

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The problem isn't the total number of cases, its the total number of people in the ICU.

Our health system simply can't handle the volume of people in ICU to the point where they are pushing off other life altering surgeries for people because they don't have the room.

To me, that is the biggest condemnation towards the anti-vax crowd (among MANY other things). Their poor choices are directly affecting the health and well being of thousands of Albertan's waiting for surgeries and they will now need to wait longer as the wait list continues to grow and be pushed back.

Get over yourselves, its selfish as fuck.

AHS, anti vaxxers and to a slightly lesser extent, the government, are all to blame.

No, we're past the point where the anti-vaxxers are the ones causing the ICU to overflow. That choice now lies at the feet of the average Canadian who doesn't have the balls to restrict ICU access to unvaccinated.

Much like Trudeau and our other bad economic policies, you must ultimately blame the majority here.

[redline]

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This

QR codes are coming in a couple of weeks.

[88CRX]

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Those people already DO overrun our healthcare system. The vast majority of health issues clogging up our system which even at the best of times is claimed to be stretched (without covid) are because of people's choices.

We've been there for a long time.

Interesting how the unvaxxed are being treated like they deserve it, even though through no action of their own, they are infected by someone else.

We should probably punish sick people who spread it. Amazing how in two years, they haven't been able to develop a quick test that is reliable for daily use.

The onus should not be on the ones who aren't sick. Thats the most twisted part of this. I'm all onboard the victim blaming train though, homeless people, drug addicts, and rape victims. All their fault.

We wanna throw antivax in there, I can get behind it.

The mental gymnastic and lack of conviction in some people in these threads is staggering. Pick a lane people. Just remember, eventually it'll come back on you in ways you don't want.

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Society doesn't have a responsibility to care about you. Individual people certainly don't. Being alive is selfish to the dead, being rich is selfish to the poor, you demanding somebody do something for your own interests strikes me as pretty selfish

But hey, to each their own

I don't recall running out of ICU beds pre-covid because of fatties and smokers?

And anti-vaxers, when they choose to not get the shot are in turn choosing to try their luck at battling covid. They are 100% making that choice themself. So no its not 'through no action of their own', unless you mean the literal lack of action to get the fucking vaccine.

[zechs]

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I don't recall running out of ICU beds pre-covid because of fatties and smokers?

And anti-vaxers, when they choose to not get the shot are in turn choosing to try their luck at battling covid. They are 100% making that choice themself. So no its not 'through no action of their own', unless you mean the literal lack of action to get the fucking vaccine.

Somebody else infected them. End of discussion.

We haven't ran out of beds because of covid either. And if the government wasn't such an absolute shitshow, they would be able to give us clear, unequivocal numbers on how many beds are available.

I can actually get behind covid people in tents btw, because their treatment is the same either way. Bed rest, drugs, and a ventilator. No real reason for them to be in a hospital for that, its not like you operate on a covid patient when they can't breathe, they can't breathe. As far as I am aware, if you hit that stage, its game over.

[redline]

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Somebody else infected them. End of discussion.

We haven't ran out of beds because of covid either. And if the government wasn't such an absolute shitshow, they would be able to give us clear, unequivocal numbers on how many beds are available.

I can actually get behind covid people in tents btw, because their treatment is the same either way. Bed rest, drugs, and a ventilator. No real reason for them to be in a hospital for that, its not like you operate on a covid patient when they can't breathe, they can't breathe. As far as I am aware, if you hit that stage, its game over.

they gave the numbers last night. 276 beds if memory servers of which 218 are covid... that is with the extra beds if not for the extra beds we would be at 153% of capacity ...

[vengie]

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No, we're past the point where the anti-vaxxers are the ones causing the ICU to overflow.

Maybe I'm not fully understanding what you're saying, but the ICU is 90% partially or unvaxxed currently...

[ZenOps]

If they do have overflow, its a good thing that this is a warm September. Yup, technically you don't need a room - you do at least need a waiting and prep areas outside the hospitals to transfer patients. If its cold, its a real biotch.

In a worst case scenario where you need to use a fabric tent, its way more doable if its 15 celsius out as opposed to -15.

[Buster]

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Maybe I'm not fully understanding what you're saying, but the ICU is 90% partially or unvaxxed currently...

That's only because we are letting them into the ICU.

[jutes]

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Somebody else infected them. End of discussion.

We haven't ran out of beds because of covid either. And if the government wasn't such an absolute shitshow, they would be able to give us clear, unequivocal numbers on how many beds are available.

I can actually get behind covid people in tents btw, because their treatment is the same either way. Bed rest, drugs, and a ventilator. No real reason for them to be in a hospital for that, its not like you operate on a covid patient when they can't breathe, they can't breathe. As far as I am aware, if you hit that stage, its game over.

Beds, drugs and ventilators don't matter when you don't have the staff to support it. You'll see a lack of hospital staff long before you'll run out of supplies.

[vengie]

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That's only because we are letting them into the ICU.

Ahh yeah I see where you're going.

I agree.

[TurboMedic]

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52,000 will be hospitalized. 13,000 will be in ICU based on this math for the unvaccinated pop assuming Delta burns thru every one of them like in India.

This is the way to look at it, and not percentages that downplay the actual number. That is a shit ton of care and bedspace

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Kenney was asked last night when he thinks the restrictions will be over or perhaps it was when the 4th wave will be over, and he said when the virus has no more hosts to infect.

Oh good, taking virology advice from someone who obviously isn't clear on the concept of reinfection

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The vaxxed vs. anti-vaxx sentiment this time around is way more prominent than the previous waves, that's for sure. And understandably so.

Because everyone is literally over it.

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Interesting how the unvaxxed are being treated like they deserve it, even though through no action of their own, they are infected by someone else.

We should probably punish sick people who spread it.

wut? Guess what, they're more likely to NOT CONTRACT OR REDUCE THE SPREAD if they had been vaccinated. So yes, that is on them. This virus needs vulnerable hosts somewhere, who's most vulnerable, the unvaccinated. Can you carry it, and spread it as a vaccinated person, yes. But to what effect, people spread stuff amongst each other all the time, and their body manages it through immune response and sometimes you get sick and sometimes you don't. Yes, more blame should be placed on those who choose not to take an action that reduces their chance of spreading, and getting sick themselves. Your argument is comical.

[Kloubek]

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Yes, that ideally would be the case. Obviously this is easier said than done.

On a different, but related note, do you think smokers pay the same amount in tax as non-smokers?

Does the tax on smokes offset the expense they pose on the public system?

Legit question... maybe it does?

[ThePenIsMightier]

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Does the tax on smokes offset the expense they pose on the public system?

Legit question... maybe it does?

I've heard it does and I'm tempted to believe it.
The vast majority of smokers (that die from smoking) have a heart attack. Dig a hole and no burden on the system. Lung cancer and all the other shit is more rare. Plus they live through all their working years to contribute through taxes and CPP etc and then croak before they withdraw for 25 years.

No one knows for sure!

[dubhead]

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Does the tax on smokes offset the expense they pose on the public system?

Legit question... maybe it does?

2019 revenue was 8.3 billion so it would seem so.

https://www.straight.com/finance/can...but-sales-drop

There's actually a couple studies floating around that seem to point to smokers and the obese actually being cheaper overall on the healthcare system as they have short life expectancies and avoid drawn out old age care.

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/2/6/e001678

https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/smok...study-1.764092