Novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV/COVID-19)

[Disoblige]

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I have to say that I'm surprised at one of the guys I know at work that's alt-theory, maga hat wearing Trudeau hater and all of a sudden huge proponent of safety and follows all COVID19 protocol to the T. All because his wife and daughter are at risk.

Good on him, but just shows humans for the most part are motivated to understand and take action on something when it affects their personal circle.

What a world we would live in if people took action to causes that they thought didn't just affect their personal circle.

[Buster]

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NY was knee deep with those trucks in Apr.

I have to say that I'm surprised at one of the guys I know at work that's alt-theory, maga hat wearing Trudeau hater and all of a sudden huge proponent of safety and follows all COVID19 protocol to the T. All because his wife and daughter are at risk.

Being a Trudeau hater and someone who takes COVID seriously just shows a consistency in reasoning ability.

[A790]

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Do you think every time 172 people die from a common source it's worthy of the pandemic title and the shut in country/province/city like what has been done in the past 5 months?

So, few things:

1. You aren't being honest in your argument. Covid is far from common; it is more infectious and deadly than anything we consider "common". Entering into the discussion under this pretext is disingenuous at best.
2. If our medical community says that they need lockdowns in place in order to manage capacity, then yes, lock things down. Consider that we are having this conversation because the lockdowns worked; if they didn't, we would be having a very different conversation, no?
3. I do not treat COVID-19 as an anomoly, and you shouldn't either. It's the most serious virus/pandemic in recent memory, but it's not the first serious outbreak to take place in the past 10 years, let alone in my lifetime (or yours).
4. Accepting the above to be true, it stands to reason that it makes more sense for our society/economic model to adjust to this reality vs. the one we think we live in (but likely don't).
5. The above doesn't mean we go full-on communist. Obviously government interventions of this nature cannot be how we approach these things. I expect that our lifestyle as individuals will need to adjust so that we are better able to weather these types of events.
6. Lock shit down. Put in restrictions. Do what is needed to keep people alive and the gears turning. Ultimately, people are more important than possessions.

Serious question: would you look at an earthquake that is causing low-level but widespread damage and suggest that people spend all their time downtown surrounded by tall buildings?

Would you deny that the earthquake is all that serious if only something "trivial" like 2% of all the buildings got damaged?

What level of pandemic needs to exist before you would accept it as being worth being taken seriously? More than 100,000 people are dead south of the border because of it. Don't punish our prudence and sacrifice with complacency.

[Tik-Tok]

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What a world we would live in if people took action to causes that they thought didn't just affect their personal circle.

[Xtrema]

For those who think dying being the only metric to measure COVID 19

Summary:
https://gizmodo.com/kidneys-brain-sk...-bo-1844455856

Full Published Study:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0968-3

TLDR:
Heart, Liver, Brain, Lung, Kidney all could be compromised.
And

[MalibuStacy]

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Apparently it makes some people feel claustrophobic, makes me wonder how they feel about clothes

Probably nudists

[finboy]

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For those who think dying being the only metric to measure COVID 19

Summary:
https://gizmodo.com/kidneys-brain-sk...-bo-1844455856

Full Published Study:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0968-3

TLDR:
Heart, Liver, Brain, Lung, Kidney all could be compromised.
And

Reading through the nature article I’m not seeing much mention of age/preexisting conditions but most of the data is collected from severe cases. One of the New York studies did state an average age of their 5000+ patients at 65....

[OTown]

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Putting a moist mask in a sealed plastic bag is a bad idea. Also hand sanitizer is not effective unless your hands are clean and oil-free but that's easier to control.

See this is exactly what I was talking about. The cross contamination directly relating to mask use is going to be a huge issue.

A group of nurses who do it multiple times a day on a daily basis have issues with infection control in controlled hospital settings, how the hell can we expect Bob and Karen to don their masks correctly and continue to do so through the day?

Nothing beats social distancing, disinfecting surfaces, and frequent hand washing.

[max_boost]

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The issue with this reasoning is that it ignores the people that wear masks incorrectly or don masks in an unhygenic way, therefore actually potentially increasing infection.

Also, if people wear masks they feel more comfortable being closer to people, therefore there may be unintended consequences. Also, you can get the virus through your eyes, so masks will not protect you from that, nor from breathing it in unless its a N95+

Theres a reason why physicians (incl Dr Hinshaw) seem to be on the fence about mandatory masks. It's not the silver bullet that everyone thinks it is. It can do more harm than good in some instances. This is just like everything else, there are ups and downs to their use.

The mask debate feels like the winter tire debate lol false sense of security, doesn't eliminate all collisions, I'm a good driver, I don't need it etc.

[jutes]

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Gotta say, the biggest attention grabber for me was Texas using refrigerated trucks to store the dead. Texas FFS! Then I learned other places had been doing this before them.

Is that an attention grabber or maybe they were only set up to deal with so many dead on a regular basis. If a cities capacity for handling dead bodies was already low, then a pandemic will make it look worse. Dead people in nursing homes and long term care is a regular occurrence, but kill them all at once everyone is shocked pikachoo.

[flipstah]

If only people were so motivated regarding the WE scandal and Trudeau.

[Disoblige]

Can we get a "Mandatory Face Masks" emoji?

[ZenOps]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cov...tion-1.5658739

Tax breaks for working from home. Well damn, it was only last year that people were complaining that individuals were running businesses out of their condos.

[Misterman]

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For those who think dying being the only metric to measure COVID 19

Summary:
https://gizmodo.com/kidneys-brain-sk...-bo-1844455856

Full Published Study:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0968-3

TLDR:
Heart, Liver, Brain, Lung, Kidney all could be compromised.
And

Becomes a moot point when you understand that mask use, lockdowns, etc, are not to prevent spread, they are to slow spread.

It's funny that people want to talk about "New normal" referring to masks in public and social distancing, but nobody is really thinking of the true meaning of "New normal" is that the human race will likely just have to accept going forward that we will now have decreased lung function and whatever else they attribute to long term effects of covid. So we won't see world records being broken anymore at the Olympics, and life will continue on as it always does.


As far as the debate about whether this is a pandemic or not. There's nothing wrong with thinking this IS a pandemic, but if people with this attitude want to just make a wild assumption that everyone who doesn't agree with them is stupid, then you have some reconciling to do. When we had the swine flu pandemic just over 10 years ago, how do you reconcile us not taking anywhere near the same precautions, despite that it was killing actually healthy people instead of people that already have a foot in the grave?

[JustinL]

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When we had the swine flu pandemic just over 10 years ago, how do you reconcile us not taking anywhere near the same precautions, despite that it was killing actually healthy people instead of people that already have a foot in the grave?

We had a vaccine for that one.

[A790]

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As far as the debate about whether this is a pandemic or not. There's nothing wrong with thinking this IS a pandemic, but if people with this attitude want to just make a wild assumption that everyone who doesn't agree with them is stupid, then you have some reconciling to do. When we had the swine flu pandemic just over 10 years ago, how do you reconcile us not taking anywhere near the same precautions, despite that it was killing actually healthy people instead of people that already have a foot in the grave?

There is no debate. The only people "debating" it are people that are choosing to reject the information and recommendations available to them.

Everybody else is on board the pandemic express.

[AndyL]

Best argument.

Do you want your kids at home in September? Then the transmission rate has to go down. Wearing mask is simplest way next to going back to phase 1 lockdown.

[Xtrema]

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When we had the swine flu pandemic just over 10 years ago, how do you reconcile us not taking anywhere near the same precautions, despite that it was killing actually healthy people instead of people that already have a foot in the grave?

Swine flu killed 20k world wide. COVID19 took 615K so far in just 6 months.

From Canada perspective, it's 309 vs 8800, just to give up the magnitude of difference. And vaccine was ready in about 6-7months from start of outbreak if memory serves me correctly.

Its ability to quickly spread into vulnerable pocket of population is why we are on high alert. The same reason we were concerned about 2003 SARS but that only killed 774 and has considered lucky it didn't spread as quick.

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Best argument.

Do you want your kids at home in September? Then the transmission rate has to go down. Wearing mask is simplest way next to going back to phase 1 lockdown.

That will help to a degree but it don't stop people from being stupid.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...erns-1.5658909


1000 ppl are now instructed to be isolated after contact tracing a 70 ppl outbreak in Kelowna as well.

[sabad66]

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Becomes a moot point when you understand that mask use, lockdowns, etc, are not to prevent spread, they are to slow spread.

It's funny that people want to talk about "New normal" referring to masks in public and social distancing, but nobody is really thinking of the true meaning of "New normal" is that the human race will likely just have to accept going forward that we will now have decreased lung function and whatever else they attribute to long term effects of covid. So we won't see world records being broken anymore at the Olympics, and life will continue on as it always does.


As far as the debate about whether this is a pandemic or not. There's nothing wrong with thinking this IS a pandemic, but if people with this attitude want to just make a wild assumption that everyone who doesn't agree with them is stupid, then you have some reconciling to do. When we had the swine flu pandemic just over 10 years ago, how do you reconcile us not taking anywhere near the same precautions, despite that it was killing actually healthy people instead of people that already have a foot in the grave?

Its looking like the vaccines are going to work. I'm hoping myself and my family can avoid getting COVID until they are out and then ultimately never get it in our entire lives.

[duaner]

From a post shared on FB. Whether or not Dr. Fauci actually said this, it does raise some good points:

Excellent perspective from Dr. Fauci:

“Chickenpox is a virus. Lots of people have had it, and probably don't think about it much once the initial illness has passed. But it stays in your body and lives there forever, and maybe when you're older, you have debilitatingly painful outbreaks of shingles. You don't just get over this virus in a few weeks, never to have another health effect. We know this because it's been around for years, and has been studied medically for years.

Herpes is also a virus. And once someone has it, it stays in your body and lives there forever, and anytime they get a little run down or stressed-out they're going to have an outbreak. Maybe every time you have a big event coming up (school pictures, job interview, big date) you're going to get a cold sore. For the rest of your life. You don't just get over it in a few weeks. We know this because it's been around for years, and been studied medically for years.

HIV is a virus. It attacks the immune system and makes the carrier far more vulnerable to other illnesses. It has a list of symptoms and negative health impacts that goes on and on. It was decades before viable treatments were developed that allowed people to live with a reasonable quality of life. Once you have it, it lives in your body forever and there is no cure. Over time, that takes a toll on the body, putting people living with HIV at greater risk for health conditions such as cardiovascular disease, kidney disease, diabetes, bone disease, liver disease, cognitive disorders, and some types of cancer. We know this because it has been around for years, and had been studied medically for years.

Now with COVID-19, we have a novel virus that spreads rapidly and easily. The full spectrum of symptoms and health effects is only just beginning to be cataloged, much less understood.
So far the symptoms may include:
Fever
Fatigue
Coughing
Pneumonia
Chills/Trembling
Acute respiratory distress
Lung damage (potentially permanent)
Loss of taste (a neurological symptom)
Sore throat
Headaches
Difficulty breathing
Mental confusion
Diarrhea
Nausea or vomiting
Loss of appetite
Strokes have also been reported in some people who have COVID-19 (even in the relatively young)
Swollen eyes
Blood clots
Seizures
Liver damage
Kidney damage
Rash
COVID toes (weird, right?)

People testing positive for COVID-19 have been documented to be sick even after 60 days. Many people are sick for weeks, get better, and then experience a rapid and sudden flare up and get sick all over again. A man in Seattle was hospitalized for 62 days, and while well enough to be released, still has a long road of recovery ahead of him.

Then there is MIS-C. Multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children is a condition where different body parts can become inflamed, including the heart, lungs, kidneys, brain, skin, eyes, or gastrointestinal organs. Children with MIS-C may have a fever and various symptoms, including abdominal pain, vomiting, diarrhea, neck pain, rash, bloodshot eyes, or feeling extra tired. While rare, it has caused deaths.
This disease has not been around for years. It has basically been 6 months. No one knows yet the long-term health effects, or how it may present itself years down the road for people who have been exposed. We literally *do not know* what we do not know.

For those in our society who suggest that people being cautious are cowards, for people who refuse to take even the simplest of precautions to protect themselves and those around them, I want to ask, without hyperbole and in all sincerity: How dare you?

How dare you risk the lives of others so cavalierly. How dare you decide for others that they should welcome exposure as "getting it over with", when literally no one knows who will be the lucky "mild symptoms" case, and who may fall ill and die. Because while we know that some people are more susceptible to suffering a more serious case, we also know that 20 and 30-year-olds have died, marathon runners and fitness nuts have died, children and infants have died.

How dare you behave as though you know more than medical experts, when those same experts acknowledge that there is so much we don't yet know, but with what we DO know, are smart enough to be scared of how easily this is spread, and recommend baseline precautions such as:
Frequent hand-washing
Physical distancing
Reduced social/public contact or interaction
Mask wearing
Covering your cough or sneeze
Avoiding touching your face
Sanitizing frequently touched surfaces

The more things we can all do to mitigate our risk of exposure, the better off we all are, in my opinion. Not only does it flatten the curve and allow health care providers to maintain levels of service that aren't immediately and catastrophically overwhelmed; it also reduces unnecessary suffering and deaths, and buys time for the scientific community to study the virus in order to come to a more full understanding of the breadth of its impacts in both the short and long term.

I reject the notion that it's "just a virus" and we'll all get it eventually. What a careless, lazy, heartless stance.”