Novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV/COVID-19)

[kertejud2]

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Our health system is based on the concept of limiting access and permanent shortages. Gatekeeping is required under that system, and lots of people never get the transplants.

You say this as though there are systems where transplants aren't subject to permanent shortage.

[Xtrema]

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She's 90 years old?

Doesn't transplant patient requires immune system suppressed? So may be same or worse than a 90 yr old?

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Our health system is based on the concept of limiting access and permanent shortages. Gatekeeping is required under that system, and lots of people never get the transplants.

Organ is in short supply. That's why I signed mine away on the latest DL renewal.

If we go full capitalist system, nobody but Chinese and Americans can get organs.

[suntan]

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Exactly, they cover your holes, slowing down the velocity of large spittle.

How much large spittle have you been hit by in Costco? That's not even the problem, it's the small aerosolized moisture that you breathe in - and land on your eyeballs, yeah that's a thing - that's the concern.

[vengie]

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It isn't though. She needed ALL available vaccinations. Not just Covid.

Clearly I missed this, I thought I read she just needed the Covid vax?
So you're saying she has NO vaccinations?

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Knee replacements aren't waiting on donors. As for the rest, they have other pre-conditions. They won't transplant a liver to an alcoholic unless he's sober.

Do you think a morbidly obese person should be eligible for multiple knee replacements at a significant cost to taxpayers?

[jutes]

It’s horseshit smokers are given lung transplants.

[zipdoa]

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@Zipoda This is what you need to investigate:

"They cited a national consensus statement — developed in November 2021 and subsequently accepted by all Canadian transplant programs — which found a 25-30 per cent mortality rate in patients infected with COVID post-organ transplant."

I put this in the same category of people who refuse blood transfusions because of religious beliefs. My 2c

Developed in November 2021. The science stops there and hasn't progressed? Gimme a break.

It doesn't even clarify if that 25-30 percent mortality rate is in unvaccinated parties exclusively and benefit is observed otherwise.

Shit science, operating off dogma.

Lewis suffers from a “progressive and debilitating” illness with an unknown cause. Without a new organ (the identity of which is covered by a publication ban meant to protect the identities of Lewis’s treatment team) it is a “virtual certainty” she will die, the court of appeal said.

Lewis was accepted into the transplant program in May 2020. That October, she was moved to the top of the wait list after an assessment found her health was deteriorating and that she would most benefit from a transplant.

In March 2021, however, Lewis was told she would need to receive a COVID-19 vaccination to maintain her place on the list. Lewis refused — despite having all other required vaccines — calling the shot “experimental” and saying it violated her conscience. She was moved to the bottom of the list last November, where she remains.

Give this woman the organ she needs. She felt the vaccine wasn't as safe or effective as it was claimed to be, and time is proving her to be right.

Lawyers for AHS and the doctors, on the other hand, argued the vaccines are safe and effective and vital to the safe operation of transplant programs since the arrival of COVID. They cited a national consensus statement — developed in November 2021 and subsequently accepted by all Canadian transplant programs — which found a 25-30 per cent mortality rate in patients infected with COVID post-organ transplant.

Right. So they prefer vaccinated transplant recipients to spread covid exclusively.

[Xtrema]

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Shit science, operating off dogma.

Does it matter? Catching COVID is pretty much a guarantee at this point within a 12 month period. If vaccine take down death risk by even 1%, why shouldn't that vaxxed person be ahead in the queue?

Why waste an organ on someone who did 99% of what's asked when someone else has done 100%?

Finite resource = gate keeping. If we take money out of the equation, it'll be something else. It's just a bunch of people like to politicalize this one. You think it's more fair for a 50year old be ahead in queue vs a 80 year old for an organ? You think it's more fair for smoker to be ahead for a lung than a non-smoker? Where are outrages on that?

Science didn't stop. People did.

Unvaccinated still dying at 10x the rate of someone with 2 boosters and 5x rate for someone with primary 2 shots. When you look at that stat, you think it's still fair to keep unvax'ed at top of queue?

This is especially true for transplant patient need to take immunosuppressant to fight rejection and especially vulnerable the 1st year.

[kertejud2]

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It’s horseshit smokers are given lung transplants.

Over a third of all lung transplants are from smokers. Being a smoker is a great way to get yourself booted from the list.

[DonJuan]

@suntan & @zipdoa , The vaccines don't stop you from getting the disease but it does prevent you from being hospitalized because of it. I thought this was established?
@Xtrema makes an excellent point also as is my understanding they have to suppress the immune system of the patient to prevent organ rejection.

So what value having a vaccine to boost the immune system if they are going to suppress it anyway? This is where actually researching the reasoning and findings of this Nov 2021 decision might be useful to zipdoa's argument which he seems unwilling to do. However if her own lawyers are citing a "Veterinary medicine study" and not into the reasoning behind the Nov 2021 decision for a supreme court case sounds like she may have made a questionable choice in lawyers also.

My intent is not to antagonize, just stating facts.

[88CRX]

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It's funny, as someone who was actively trying to catch covid before travelling, it's surprisingly difficult to actually catch it. I've been in close contact with COVID+ people for 30+ mins in closed space (locker room) many times, even slept in the same room with COVID+ family in the house. It took 3rd time before I caught it, and it was mild. Had no symptoms either. I was testing daily for 2 months just for shits and giggles.

We had kids that we didn't know was sick until a random check out of curiosity, who spent time with other kids at birthday parties, hockey camps. None of their friends caught it either.

Purely anecdotal, just funny observation.

Shit is totally random.

I just picked it up for the second time in less than a year. Had dinner with about 12 people, one fell sick the day after and subsequently tested positive. I got a cold ~1 week later and tested positive a couple days after that. Out of the 12 people I'm the only who's since gotten sick, 1 anti vaxer in attendance and he's fine.

I wasn't going to bother testing but also was curious if I got the vid again from our dinner 10 days ago... sure as shit, got it. Kids sick with a fever now too (we're not testing but I'm sure its covid). Wife so far is fine.

I was also at work (super spreader) for 2 days with a sore throat so I'm curious if anyone else ends up sick now.

[Xtrema]

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I wasn't going to bother testing but also was curious if I got the vid again from our dinner 10 days ago... sure as shit, got it. Kids sick with a fever now too (we're not testing but I'm sure its covid). Wife so far is fine.

was at lunch with team on a Friday a few months back. Everyone got COVID symptoms after the weekend and I was like

[max_boost]

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It's funny, as someone who was actively trying to catch covid before travelling, it's surprisingly difficult to actually catch it. I've been in close contact with COVID+ people for 30+ mins in closed space (locker room) many times, even slept in the same room with COVID+ family in the house. It took 3rd time before I caught it, and it was mild. Had no symptoms either. I was testing daily for 2 months just for shits and giggles.

We had kids that we didn't know was sick until a random check out of curiosity, who spent time with other kids at birthday parties, hockey camps. None of their friends caught it either.

Purely anecdotal, just funny observation.

Haha boss man is the Adam Corolla of beyond

[jutes]

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Over a third of all lung transplants are from smokers. Being a smoker is a great way to get yourself booted from the list.

I’d love to be one handling that list.

Fat? Can’t bench 225lb? Smoker?

No organ for you.

[Xtrema]

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I’d love to be one handling that list.

Fat? Can’t bench 225lb? Smoker?

No organ for you.

Well, if they make pig organ work, may be gatekeeping will be a thing of the past.

https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/h...eys-and-hearts

Then some will bitch how it's not halal or some shit.

[Yolobimmer]

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@suntan & @zipdoa , The vaccines don't stop you from getting the disease but it does prevent you from being hospitalized because of it. I thought this was established?
@Xtrema makes an excellent point also as is my understanding they have to suppress the immune system of the patient to prevent organ rejection.

So what value having a vaccine to boost the immune system if they are going to suppress it anyway? This is where actually researching the reasoning and findings of this Nov 2021 decision might be useful to zipdoa's argument which he seems unwilling to do. However if her own lawyers are citing a "Veterinary medicine study" and not into the reasoning behind the Nov 2021 decision for a supreme court case sounds like she may have made a questionable choice in lawyers also.

My intent is not to antagonize, just stating facts.

The vaccine most definitely CAN prevent you from getting it.

That is a misunderstanding stemming from the latest "Pfizer is evil" misinformation scheme.

It's not guaranteed, and timing plays a role, but it CERTAINLY does reduce infection and tranmission.

[Yolobimmer]

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I’d love to be one handling that list.

Fat? Can’t bench 225lb? Smoker?

No organ for you.

Pffft. 225. That's garden 9 numbers son.

[Misterman]

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Technically she wasn't denied a transplant, she just isn't the highest priority recipient due to her vaccination status.

Even if this was the case, it is a violation of her charter rights being that it is discrimination.

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Think of it this way. It's a limited resource and investment in time and money. If you have a high risk of dying from COVID anyway, bottom of pile you go.

Pretty sure there will be tons of other pre-req other than COVID vax to get you up that list.

Cool. So we can just kick fags off the list too then since they have a high risk of dying from AIDS or Monkeypox.

The absurdity of this, is that getting the covid vax could actually be a high risk for her. Also the other glaring problem with this, is that the vax does NOT prevent transmission. If she is at high risk to die from covid, then her vaccination status is irrelevant.

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The court sounds reasonable as that's not the place for medical judgements.

The court is right in the fact that they should not be stepping in the way of medical judgements. But that is a giant red herring because the case has nothing to do with that. The case is about her trying to prevent a discriminatory made up medical guideline from interfering in her care. And the court is being unreasonable by not validating and protecting her charter rights.

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@Zipoda This is what you need to investigate:

"They cited a national consensus statement — developed in November 2021 and subsequently accepted by all Canadian transplant programs — which found a 25-30 per cent mortality rate in patients infected with COVID post-organ transplant."

I put this in the same category of people who refuse blood transfusions because of religious beliefs. My 2c

False. What needs to be investigated for the court to have any leg to stand on with this decision, is if covid vaccination in transplanted individuals reduces the mortality rate from covid infection in this group.

[Buster]

There is a massive field within bio-ethics on managing scarcity in the most just way possible. Your armchair philosophy is amateur hour.

[Yolobimmer]

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There is a massive field within bio-ethics on managing scarcity in the most just way possible. Your armchair philosophy is amateur hour.

LMAO. God you are a Moron.

[jutes]

He can’t see your posts there champ.