Novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV/COVID-19)

[The_Rural_Juror]

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Again, as many have stated - there needs to be a middle ground, which - as we can see - is immediately ridiculed by those people, mainly, who have fallen for the binary/fear narrative of the main stream media.

What's your suggestion? Or the suggestion of anti-main stream media like stalkerzone?

Isn't Canada on the middle ground? We are not in totalitarian lockdown like Wuhan, and we are not in free-zone like Brazil. How much more middle ground can we be? We are in partial lockdown where people can still go outside if they are not sick, so long as they socially distance. We have essential businesses open, and that list is reasonably long. We are not censored by the government. There is plenty of TP for all. I don't recall what the legal limit for orgies are, but I believe that is still an option for people.

[A790]

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I believe what hes advocating is that health and life are going to be much worse affected now in the next 6-12 months, given the completely over the top response (shutting down the entire global economy) - than the health and life that we have 'saved' here with these strange, draconian and orwellian (in many cases) actions by panicked governments.

Doing nothing is not a good idea, but neither is (in Canada) doing what we've done here.

Again, as many have stated - there needs to be a middle ground, which - as we can see - is immediately ridiculed by those people, mainly, who have fallen for the binary/fear narrative of the main stream media.

So you're thinking that there are other options that some of the smartest people in the world did not pursue because... why?

Like, the only option that makes sense from a medical and scientific point of view is flatten the curve and then live in the new normal. That means we isolate now, get this shit under "control", and then modify our lives somewhat until a vaccine is found. So we're in the middle of phase one... what's the issue here?

Clearly, the top minds in North America or the EU should have just hired some random jackasses from beyond and we'd all be wayyyy better off. Right?

Ridicule happens and is rightfully earned in this case. We are living the middle ground right now. It's hilarious you guys don't see that.

[ThePenIsMightier]

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MaSkS aRe UsElEsS cUz u CaN gEt iT tHrOuGh dEm EyEz

I LoL'd and upgraded your post, appropriately:

[revelations]

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So you're thinking that there are other options that some of the smartest people in the world did not pursue because... why?

Like, the only option that makes sense from a medical and scientific point of view is flatten the curve and then live in the new normal. That means we isolate now, get this shit under "control", and then modify our lives somewhat until a vaccine is found. So we're in the middle of phase one... what's the issue here?

Clearly, the top minds in North America or the EU should have just hired some random jackasses from beyond and we'd all be wayyyy better off. Right?

Ridicule happens and is rightfully earned in this case. We are living the middle ground right now. It's hilarious you guys don't see that.

(middle ground) OK thats definitely not the case - we did not perform a measured response - trudeau refused to act (likely for fear of optics) for the longest time to stop flights from the affected areas and then proceeded to decimate our economy.

Middle ground would have been:

a) shut down international flights to the area (and other affected regions) quickly
b) stronger measures to isolate the sick/elderly/etc.
c) keep people working and the economy moving - to PAY for the expenses
d) keep daycares open (like in BC and SK)
e) masks for those in risky conditions

Again, the binary narrative is NOT middle ground. Anyone who questions this is a fuck head?

[tirebob]

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What's your suggestion? Or the suggestion of anti-main stream media like stalkerzone?

Isn't Canada on the middle ground? We are not in totalitarian lockdown like Wuhan, and we are not in free-zone like Brazil. How much more middle ground can we be?

I think we could be a little less locked down on the business front with clear rules of interaction in place for sure and police that rather than speeders as an example. Really though, you are right that some business is still existing, but we are scaring people into not dealing with them at all rather than demonstrating safe ways to go about it. This is hurting the economy even further than really is necessary. When I talk over reacting it is in this regard. We have people so scared they think they are going to die if they set foot out of their house or that they are going to kill anyone within 100 feet of them when there are safe ways to still interact together and still keep the economy turning to a degree. As with anything, education is key but all we are saying is “death! death! death!”

[The_Rural_Juror]

Good JRE interview with Dr Peter Hotez. This guy is working hard to help get vaccines to market.

You can tell the medical professionals are overworked and very concerned.
This is the part where it is particularly heartbreaking for me. https://youtu.be/Q9Q53KWZFMU?t=3365



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we are scaring people into not dealing with them at all

Are we talking about your glorious face bush?

[The_Rural_Juror]

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(middle ground) OK thats definitely not the case - we did not perform a measured response - trudeau refused to act (likely for fear of optics) for the longest time to stop flights from the affected areas and then proceeded to decimate our economy.

Middle ground would have been:

a) shut down international flights to the area (and other affected regions) quickly
b) stronger measures to isolate the sick/elderly/etc.
c) keep people working and the economy moving - to PAY for the expenses
d) keep daycares open (like in BC and SK)
e) masks for those in risky conditions

Again, the binary narrative is NOT middle ground. Anyone who questions this is a fuck head?

a) Shutting down flights is actually a binary response (ie. open vs closed). What they did was funnel flights into four airports, so some airports are open, some are closed. A middle ground.
b) Stronger measures to isolate - how?
c) They did keep people working until community transmission became evident, so not early, not late.
d) Daycares and schools are huge vectors for disease spread (do you have kids?)
e) There is a shortage of masks

Let me break this down by whether the 5 actions you suggested increases or decreases the risk of disease transmission.
a) Decrease but lose on economy
b) Decreases but not viable are you going to isolate all of the obese, diabetic, hypertensive, old, (now young), people with lung, kidney, cancer?
c) Vastly Increase
d) Vastly Increases
e) Vastly decreases but not viable because supplies are not available (which they are not) and prioritize to front line healthcare workers

What I see are 2 of the 5 vastly increases risk of transmission, 2 out of 5 are not viable, 1 out of 5 decreases transmission at the risk of decreased income (which you are concerned with). The effects are opposing.

So I don't quite see your argument here. It appears to be disjointed - perhaps some other people can opine.
Back to my floatie.

[Tik-Tok]

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What do you recommend for an aspiring Aspenite to go camping in?

A tiny home of course. It's all the rage on SAHM-TV.

[A790]

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(middle ground) OK thats definitely not the case - we did not perform a measured response - trudeau refused to act (likely for fear of optics) for the longest time to stop flights from the affected areas and then proceeded to decimate our economy.

Middle ground would have been:

a) shut down international flights to the area (and other affected regions) quickly
b) stronger measures to isolate the sick/elderly/etc.
c) keep people working and the economy moving - to PAY for the expenses
d) keep daycares open (like in BC and SK)
e) masks for those in risky conditions

Again, the binary narrative is NOT middle ground. Anyone who questions this is a fuck head?

Stop looking/thinking six inches in front of your face, mate. The clear middle ground is gaining control on transmission and then gradually reopening parts of the economy to manage the caseload and keep the healthcare system in check.

Was the situation handled perfectly? Absolutely not. Would I have done anything differently? Doubt it. Hindsight is 20/20 and I'm not so arrogant so as to assume that, in January and with the information available then, that I'd have reacted perfectly. Moving forward, sure. This experience has taught us all the importance of it.

What I'm seeing a lot of are people - like you, jutes, bob (sorry bob) - that are saying there are better ways to do things but not actually articulating the how or the why. So it's great to say that there better options, but another thing entirely to explore them.

Again, people much smarter and more invested than both of us got us on the isolation bandwagon. Why?

[The_Rural_Juror]

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b) stronger measures to isolate the sick/elderly/etc.

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I think we could be a little less locked down on the business front ...“death! death! death!”

I hate to say this, but if Revelations gets his way with stronger measures to isolate anyone with high risk factors...they may be quarantining you and I would be very sad.

Regarding the education part. Business is slow because of the virus, yes. But business will not be better if there were less restrictions. Our Alberta economy is in the potty now because of people losing their jobs. People are losing their jobs because oil prices suck.

Oil prices suck because the Saudis and Russians realize that they have a unique opportunity to kill off heavy cost producers (like us) and decided to flood the market.
Oil prices also suck because people in other parts of the world are losing their jobs. They are losing their jobs because companies have gone bankrupt from the loss of demand.

The loss of demand comes from companies, and jurisdictions, not locking down soon enough to control the spread of the virus. Being a novel virus created significant challenges as no one saw it coming, nor did they know what it was. That took time.

What I am trying to impress upon you all is that whether Alberta businesses are locked down or not has little bearing on the demand picture. Locking down helps to save lives. The economy was going to be shit anyway. Lay offs were going to happen because of things around the world where we have no control over.

To give you an idea. A few months ago, in somewhat equilibrium, our oil was fetching say $30/bbl. Saudis and Russians flood the market with a few million barrels per day. I don't recall the exact number, but call it 4 million barrels per day. That's roughly how much we produce in Alberta (remember, we're in horseshoes/hand grenades territory). Alberta heavy goes down to $25/bbl. That sucks and many heavy producers wouldn't be able to cover costs.

Then you have the demand destruction where the world economy goes to shit because of a super new death death death (triple D) virus. Triple D wreaks havoc in the Asian market, closing down factories and imprisoning about 10% of the world's populations. If welding down 750 million people into their homes didn't resolve the issue...

Then it hits Europe and is killing off tons of people old, young, and medical professionals risking their lives to help stop this. Then it hits North America. Now you've got a massive demand issue. Maybe 20 million barrels per day. Alberta heavy goes down to $5/bbl. Ain't nobody making rent at this price.

Now, you've got 4 mmbpd oversupply + 20 mmbpd underdemand= 24 mmbpd of extra crude on the market. Your costs to produce, lift, blend, and transport to the refineries is call it $20+ variable, not counting debt repayments.

Do you all seriously think that keeping all of our stores going is actually going to maintain our economy? It was always going to be shit. People were always going to be laid off. Businesses were always going to go bankrupt. The lockdown saves lives and allows us to recover with less human toll.

It is also our duty to help those who are vulnerable. Saying that people are inherently selfish is impressing your own values onto strangers. It is an oversimplification, and not all of us are like that.

People who say that we are not seeing the big picture. Well, this is the big picture. We are heavily influenced by what occurs around the world.

I hope that makes sense. I would write a more structured post, but my laptop is wet now.

[Dynasty 88]

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I believe what hes advocating is that health and life are going to be much worse affected now in the next 6-12 months, given the completely over the top response (shutting down the entire global economy) - than the health and life that we have 'saved' here with these strange, draconian and orwellian (in many cases) actions by panicked governments.

Doing nothing is not a good idea, but neither is (in Canada) doing what we've done here.

Again, as many have stated - there needs to be a middle ground, which - as we can see - is immediately ridiculed by those people, mainly, who have fallen for the binary/fear narrative of the main stream media.

At this point anything the mainsteam media says the people will believe it without question, that's pretty scary in itself. My wife is on temp layoff, she has a ton free time and has been going down some rabbit holes involving our world's "trusted" voices. I'm not calling this crisis anything its not, just open to view it from different angles and listening to alternate sources. Can't hurt lol, just give you more or less to worry about depending on who/what you believe.

[dirtsniffer]

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What do you recommend for an aspiring Aspenite to go camping in?

Aspenites don't camp

[arcticcat522]

What would be the outcome if we shut everything down for 2 weeks? (Not police/fire/ems) like everything. Would it not stop the spread? Some essential manufacturing could offer some big $ to a couple shifts worth of people to sleep at their job and just pump out what the are making. The b.s. essential service list is bonkers with who is considered esential

[Tik-Tok]

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Aspenites don't camp

No, but they still buy the most expensive 28' trailer they can find, and then use it as a guest house at their cottage on the lake.

[tirebob]

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I hate to say this, but if Revelations gets his way with stronger measures to isolate anyone with high risk factors...they may be quarantining you and I would be very sad. .......

Wait... Are you saying I am fat??? seriously though, I have dropped 90lbs over the last couple years so I am healthier than I have been in decades! That said, I am still pretty doughy... lol

[The_Rural_Juror]

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A tiny home of course. It's all the rage on SAHM-TV.

What's a SAHM TV? Tiny home is difficult to tow.

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Wait... Are you saying I am fat??? seriously though, I have dropped 90lbs over the last couple years so I am healthier than I have been in decades! That said, I am still pretty doughy... lol

You know I love you and am proud of you. That beard's putting you on the wrong side of the BMI scale. A quick trim is all you need.

[OTown]

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Look what calling it beerflu did. https://fortune.com/2020/04/03/coron...ts-production/

Going to call you out on this #fakenews

Corona is not being produced because of government business shutdown, not because its called coronavirus. Rumours that no one was drinking corona have been false.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/corona-b...ales-1.1397708

Constellation Brands Inc. said on Friday that concerns that the novel coronavirus outbreak is having a negative impact on consumer sentiment towards its Corona beer brand are “unfounded,” with sales of the beverage continuing to rise.

[The_Rural_Juror]

107 new cases + 5 additional deaths yesterday. Pretty senseless deaths.

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Going to call you out on this #fakenews

Shhhhhh....(whispers) I dropped that in for the conspiracy theorists.

[Tik-Tok]

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What's a SAHM TV? Tiny home is difficult to tow.

Stay At Home Mom (housewife) TV... AKA HGTV

[The_Rural_Juror]

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Stay At Home Mom (housewife) TV... AKA HGTV

Which one is the MILF TV?