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  1. #2801
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xtrema View Post
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    While it's easy to tie Africa to shit ass dictator countries, Chinese money is stabilizing some other that even German and Brazilian money are following in:

    https://www.worldfinance.com/markets...mies-in-africa

    In the end, while we looked to China as our place to have cheap shit made 20 years ago, China is looking to Africa to do the same for them.
    Ah, yes. A mercantile relationship with Africa. That's also never been tried before.

    It's like China has come up with an idea that no one has ever though of before.

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    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...-deutsche-bank

    Trump owes Deutsche bank $300 million. But owing that much is the banks problem, not Trumps.
    Opportunity Cost : Columbus spent $0 on burned carbon fuels to find America.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tirebob View Post
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    Like the 'nam? Or maybe every army in history versus Afghanistan? Both the Soviets and the USA have not done well there...
    The US' problem in Vietnam (and their current War on Terror) wasn't just that they were being out-strategized, but that they were fighting an increasingly negative PR battle at home. Democracy doesn't fare well in wars because of transparency and accountability that comes with it. China, on the other hand, doesn't give a fuck about what the populace thinks about how they conduct war.

    The Soviets had a different problem. They couldn't give a fuck about what anyone else thought and were willing to throw bodies at the problem - the "wait until they run out of bullets" strategy - but they didn't have the human, financial or military capital to effectively run that strategy.

    China has, in abundance, everything that both countries didn't. The resources to throw body after body, dollar after dollar in a conflict while also giving exactly zero fucks about whether they were sending their soldiers to the lions. That makes them incredibly dangerous on a world stage where their only effective counterbalance - both financially and militarily - is in disarray.
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    China has to worry about its domestic population far more than any other superpower in history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    I'm sure that China has got African colonization all figured out. Never been tried before.

    And the Americans can get Afghanistan sorted out, unlike all of the other attempts in the last 2000 years.
    It's odd that you ignore the many decades that colonialism was super successful from the colonizers POV, and was overall a major net financial gain for them.

    Again, no one is saying that China will be the winner forever, but on the timeline that matters to us (our lifespan) it would be dumb to pretend like exploiting Africa isn't a well proven victory for whoever is bloodthirsty enough to do it at any given time

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    Quote Originally Posted by Antonito View Post
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    It's odd that you ignore the many decades that colonialism was super successful from the colonizers POV, and was overall a major net financial gain for them.

    Again, no one is saying that China will be the winner forever, but on the timeline that matters to us (our lifespan) it would be dumb to pretend like exploiting Africa isn't a well proven victory for whoever is bloodthirsty enough to do it at any given time
    I think there are numerous issues with assuming China can do this. I don't think they have the capacity to do so, but we shall see.

    But the original question is if the Yuan is in a position to take over as the reserve currency.

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    The problem with Biden is that he seems to be the sort to listen to advisors and make informed decisions.

    Which is a problem when you talk about US military generals, who can take indifference as a go ahead sign. A "weak" leader at top that does not prioritize military and conquering, often tends to have military generals that take the initiative.

    When you are under a Kim Jong, you do want Kim Jong says.
    Opportunity Cost : Columbus spent $0 on burned carbon fuels to find America.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sexualbanana View Post
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    The US' problem in Vietnam (and their current War on Terror) wasn't just that they were being out-strategized, but that they were fighting an increasingly negative PR battle at home. Democracy doesn't fare well in wars because of transparency and accountability that comes with it. China, on the other hand, doesn't give a fuck about what the populace thinks about how they conduct war.

    The Soviets had a different problem. They couldn't give a fuck about what anyone else thought and were willing to throw bodies at the problem - the "wait until they run out of bullets" strategy - but they didn't have the human, financial or military capital to effectively run that strategy.

    China has, in abundance, everything that both countries didn't. The resources to throw body after body, dollar after dollar in a conflict while also giving exactly zero fucks about whether they were sending their soldiers to the lions. That makes them incredibly dangerous on a world stage where their only effective counterbalance - both financially and militarily - is in disarray.
    What was the Soviets problem in Afghanistan then? The Soviets never had an issue throwing bodies at a battle like cannon fodder. Just look what they did to Germany in WW2, and they still got put on their ass by a bunch of low tech, farmers in Afghanistan. There is a big difference when you are fighting with people who don't play the way you want them to, and if you think Africans will be a pushover, you haven't really been paying attention. They don't give a fuck about dying for what they consider theirs and will create a bigger headache for China if they are dumb enough to try and invade than anything they have ever tired in the past. Those guys know what life long suffering is, and the threat of war is not going to make them quake in their boots.
    Bob Blakeborough

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    Quote Originally Posted by tirebob View Post
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    What was the Soviets problem in Afghanistan then? The Soviets never had an issue throwing bodies at a battle like cannon fodder. Just look what they did to Germany in WW2, and they still got put on their ass by a bunch of low tech, farmers in Afghanistan. There is a big difference when you are fighting with people who don't play the way you want them to, and if you think Africans will be a pushover, you haven't really been paying attention. They don't give a fuck about dying for what they consider theirs and will create a bigger headache for China if they are dumb enough to try and invade than anything they have ever tired in the past. Those guys know what life long suffering is, and the threat of war is not going to make them quake in their boots.
    Good points. And God help us if they get ahold of Wolf Cola!
    LoL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tirebob View Post
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    What was the Soviets problem in Afghanistan then? The Soviets never had an issue throwing bodies at a battle like cannon fodder. Just look what they did to Germany in WW2, and they still got put on their ass by a bunch of low tech, farmers in Afghanistan. There is a big difference when you are fighting with people who don't play the way you want them to, and if you think Africans will be a pushover, you haven't really been paying attention. They don't give a fuck about dying for what they consider theirs and will create a bigger headache for China if they are dumb enough to try and invade than anything they have ever tired in the past. Those guys know what life long suffering is, and the threat of war is not going to make them quake in their boots.
    My argument is that the Soviets had the human capital, but they didn't have the financial resources to sustain it because they were also in the middle of the Cold War with West that was draining their finances backed by a fragile economy that couldn't keep up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    I think there are numerous issues with assuming China can do this. I don't think they have the capacity to do so, but we shall see.

    But the original question is if the Yuan is in a position to take over as the reserve currency.
    Indeed we shall see if China will continue doing the thing it's currently doing

    If that had been the original question, I would agree with you. As for the actual kicking off point of "You don't, but the USA has shat on their international credibility and China is happily taking their place within that vacuum", it's currently happening whether you want to ignore it or not. Will it actually get to the point of a Chinese victory? We'll see. Hope not

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    Quote Originally Posted by tirebob View Post
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    What was the Soviets problem in Afghanistan then? The Soviets never had an issue throwing bodies at a battle like cannon fodder. Just look what they did to Germany in WW2, and they still got put on their ass by a bunch of low tech, farmers in Afghanistan. There is a big difference when you are fighting with people who don't play the way you want them to, and if you think Africans will be a pushover, you haven't really been paying attention. They don't give a fuck about dying for what they consider theirs and will create a bigger headache for China if they are dumb enough to try and invade than anything they have ever tired in the past. Those guys know what life long suffering is, and the threat of war is not going to make them quake in their boots.
    Didn't the Americans supply the taliban (including Bin Laden interestingly enough) with support against Soviets? That had to have helped them hold them off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabad66 View Post
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    Didn't the Americans supply the taliban (including Bin Laden interestingly enough) with support against Soviets? That had to have helped them hold them off.
    I think if China went into Africa, you would see some similar shit going down for sure...

    When you are fighting warlords who are willing to addict 10 years olds to heavy drugs and give them AK47's and machetes and send them into certain death, you are gonna have problems...
    Bob Blakeborough

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabad66 View Post
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    Didn't the Americans supply the taliban (including Bin Laden interestingly enough) with support against Soviets? That had to have helped them hold them off.
    Yes, although they weren't the Taliban, they were the Mujahadeen, which evolved into the Taliban.

    Bin Laden was also trained by the C.I.A.......... allegedly

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    Quote Originally Posted by sexualbanana View Post
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    My argument is that the Soviets had the human capital, but they didn't have the financial resources to sustain it because they were also in the middle of the Cold War with West that was draining their finances backed by a fragile economy that couldn't keep up.
    Look back at WW2 and tell me they were in a better position... Seriously.
    Bob Blakeborough

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabad66 View Post
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    Didn't the Americans supply the taliban (including Bin Laden interestingly enough) with support against Soviets? That had to have helped them hold them off.
    Don't forget Rambo 3. Hollywood propaganda is a highly effective weapon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Antonito View Post
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    Indeed we shall see if China will continue doing the thing it's currently doing

    If that had been the original question, I would agree with you. As for the actual kicking off point of "You don't, but the USA has shat on their international credibility and China is happily taking their place within that vacuum", it's currently happening whether you want to ignore it or not. Will it actually get to the point of a Chinese victory? We'll see. Hope not
    No, it's not happening. As I said, Africa will take free shit all day long. Then they will just walk away from the deal and keep the free shit. If China thinks they "own" anything in africa, I have a bridge I could sell them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    No, it's not happening. As I said, Africa will take free shit all day long. Then they will just walk away from the deal and keep the free shit. If China thinks they "own" anything in africa, I have a bridge I could sell them.
    Given that Africa is currently giving a ton of resources to China, what will be the tipping point? Shouldn't they already have "walked away", whatever that means?

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    End of the day, EU is breaking. US is breaking. At a time that we need to get together to create a free trading block with 1.5B consumers in it to go against China (and may be even India in a decade or so) without resort to planes and bombs.

    And I don't see how that can be achieved when UK just did brexit and TPP got sunk by Trump.

    As much as I hate TPP, I see its strategic value against China.
    Last edited by Xtrema; 01-15-2021 at 04:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xtrema View Post
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    End of the day, EU is breaking. US is breaking. At a time that we need to get together to create a free trading block with 1.5B consumers in it to go against China (and may be even India in a decade or so) without resort to planes and bombs.

    And I don't see how that can be achieved when UK just did brexit and TPP got sunk by Trump.

    As much as I hate TPP, I see its strategic value against China.
    Canada would have been better off aligning itself with Asia in the mid 90's rather than NAFTA.
    I'm a lot closer to old man yells at cloud than an "Economist" but the number of times that NAFTA did nothing for Canada seems high. Plus, when the US willingly violated it in order to fist-fuck us (their "partner"), the process guaranteed that they squeezed every benefit completely dry by the time some monkey-ass "court" was able to rule that "yeah, that wasn't fair".
    Fuck NAFTA and fuck USA.
    Someone get me a beer. It's after 4 on a Friday and I'm tired of working!

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