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  1. #2741
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    The Japanese were never going to win that war, once the Americans got their industrial machine going. The economic output the Americans can muster is ridiculous.

    The bomb was just designed to save the lives of American soldiers and probably Japanese civilians, since they were pretty much a national religious cult at that point in their history.
    That's the thing this documentary addressed. It made the case that it did nothing to end the war faster and didn't really save any extra lives because the Japanese were actually about to surrender (or very close to it) even if the bomb wasn't dropped, and that the Americans decided they needed to drop the bomb as a demonstration to make sure they were the worlds superpower exiting the war to deal with the rise of the Soviets. The narrative they built around the Japanese never giving up otherwise was created to make the decision look justified.

    Again, it isn't something I am saying is 100% how it went down, but the evidence it showed was compelling and gives one pause to consider. I have to try and find it again.
    Bob Blakeborough

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    Quote Originally Posted by tirebob View Post
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    That's the thing this documentary addressed. It made the case that it did nothing to end the war faster and didn't really save any extra lives because the Japanese were actually about to surrender (or very close to it) even if the bomb wasn't dropped, and that the Americans decided they needed to drop the bomb as a demonstration to make sure they were the worlds superpower exiting the war to deal with the rise of the Soviets. The narrative they built around the Japanese never giving up otherwise was created to make the decision look justified.

    Again, it isn't something I am saying is 100% how it went down, but the evidence it showed was compelling and gives one pause to consider. I have to try and find it again.
    I thought they were surrendering but the nukes made it unconditional and to the US instead of Soviets.
    Last edited by Xtrema; 01-14-2021 at 01:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xtrema View Post
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    I thought they were surrendering but the nukes made it unconditional and to the US instead of Soviets.
    There is lots of discussion on this out there it seems. Just another rabbit hole to go down! haha!
    Bob Blakeborough

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    Quote Originally Posted by tirebob View Post
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    There is lots of discussion on this out there it seems. Just another rabbit hole to go down! haha!
    You might be thinking about Oliver Stone's American history docu-series on Netflix.

    I think Littledan was saying that Japan never "took" Hawaii and that Zenops is being Zenops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tirebob View Post
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    There is lots of discussion on this out there it seems. Just another rabbit hole to go down! haha!
    One had to wonder what Japan surrendering to Soviet would be like. There will be no Honda or Toyota, but probably rock solid Lada's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tirebob View Post
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    That's the thing this documentary addressed. It made the case that it did nothing to end the war faster and didn't really save any extra lives because the Japanese were actually about to surrender (or very close to it) even if the bomb wasn't dropped, and that the Americans decided they needed to drop the bomb as a demonstration to make sure they were the worlds superpower exiting the war to deal with the rise of the Soviets. The narrative they built around the Japanese never giving up otherwise was created to make the decision look justified.

    Again, it isn't something I am saying is 100% how it went down, but the evidence it showed was compelling and gives one pause to consider. I have to try and find it again.
    Every damn little POS island the Americans landed on, the Japanese defended like a bunch pf psychopaths. And most of them weren't even native Japanese soil. Taking the Japanese home islands would have been an enormously costly undertaking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    Every damn little POS island the Americans landed on, the Japanese defended like a bunch pf psychopaths. And most of them weren't even native Japanese soil. Taking the Japanese home islands would have been an enormously costly undertaking.
    Yup and given how savage they were in WW2, take no chances. Nanking? Unit 731? Will give you fkn nightmares.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    Every damn little POS island the Americans landed on, the Japanese defended like a bunch pf psychopaths. And most of them weren't even native Japanese soil. Taking the Japanese home islands would have been an enormously costly undertaking.
    The problem was they were out of everything and had nothing left to fight with and knew it. They were at the point there was almost nothing left to fight with and the leaders lost the desire to carry on.
    Bob Blakeborough

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    Looking back at WWII with the information we have today and trying to rationalize decisions and choices isn’t particularly rational.

    People had speculative guesses at best as to what was going on logistically across the fog of war.

    The Americans had the bombs, it was considered better to shock and awe them into submission rather than chance that the Japanese wouldn’t put up a fight based on uncertain information.
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

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    I think the right decision was made.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    I think the right decision was made.
    I’m always pro nuking people
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    I think the right decision was made.
    I think you are probably right, but I guess my point is that it was right for different reasons than we assumed. The world would definitely be a much different place if the Soviets emerged from WW2 as the true world superpower versus the US doing so.
    Bob Blakeborough

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    Quote Originally Posted by tirebob View Post
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    I think you are probably right, but I guess my point is that it was right for different reasons than we assumed. The world would definitely be a much different place if the Soviets emerged from WW2 as the true world superpower versus the US doing so.
    As shitty as the Americans have behaved over the last 75 years, the world would be much, much worse if the Soviets had emerged stronger. The same is true of China now. You do not want to live in a world that is China-centric.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    I think the right decision was made.
    Much like how Soviets are the 1st into Berlin, they are also most likely 1st to land troops on one of Japan's main islands, Hokkaido. Probably months ahead of the Americans.

    https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30...an-stalin-did/

    I think @tirebob 's documentary is based on this theory.

    The bombs both served as ultimatum of unconditional surrender and a show of strength to the Russians to not try anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    As shitty as the Americans have behaved over the last 75 years, the world would be much, much worse if the Soviets had emerged stronger. The same is true of China now. You do not want to live in a world that is China-centric.
    100% agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by Xtrema View Post
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    Much like how Soviets are the 1st into Berlin, they are also most likely 1st to land troops on one of Japan's main islands, Hokkaido. Probably months ahead of the Americans.

    https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30...an-stalin-did/

    I think @tirebob 's documentary is based on this theory.

    The bombs both served as ultimatum of unconditional surrender and a show of strength to the Russians to not try anything.
    Exactly! I don't think the bomb necessarily did a lot to make Japan end the war early saving untold millions of lives as much as the other aspects discussed.
    Bob Blakeborough

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    Well back on topic of the riot....

    https://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-lar...181954668.html

    While cryptocurrency has been used by extremist groups and criminals to raise funds while shielding their identities, bitcoin is pseudonymous rather than anonymous. Bitcoin wallet addresses are permanent, and the digital ledger of transactions, called the blockchain, is public and can’t be changed. That means if people identify their bitcoin wallet addresses, as many right-wing groups do to raise funds, transactions can be traced, which is what allowed Chainalysis to uncover information about the source of the large December donations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    As shitty as the Americans have behaved over the last 75 years, the world would be much, much worse if the Soviets had emerged stronger. The same is true of China now. You do not want to live in a world that is China-centric.
    You don't, but the USA has shat on their international credibility and China is happily taking their place within that vacuum.
    sig deleted by moderator, click here for info

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    Quote Originally Posted by sexualbanana View Post
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    You don't, but the USA has shat on their international credibility and China is happily taking their place within that vacuum.
    China has money, they don't have credibility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by max_boost View Post
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    Yup and given how savage they were in WW2, take no chances. Nanking? Unit 731? Will give you fkn nightmares.
    I should not have looked either one of those things up.
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    ...Last thing I want is someone reading my posts and losing their cock over it...
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    Meh, they all look like Jackie Chan to me
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    Which one has best efficacy at enlarging my dank?

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    There isn't much doubt that Biden will be soft on China. Trump was soft on Russia. Not too sure how he will be on Canada, but his stance does appear to be eco-friendly, which means rough days ahead for oil.
    Opportunity Cost : Columbus spent $0 on burned carbon fuels to find America.

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