City just put out some renderings of the green line

[killramos]

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So it starts to go underground once downtown at Eau Claire?! How are they widening Center St? At grade is definitely cheaper than tunneling but it's the same excuse used decades ago and why 7th Ave looks as it does....

They aren’t widening center street

[kertejud2]

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Meanwhile, still not even a crayon drawing Of an idea of how to get to the airport and utilize that tunnel to nowhere that was also so “nessecary”.

The problem with a train to the airport is that it's incredibly tough to make the business case for it.

It's either a service route because the Airport is an employment centre. So if most of the staff is in the NE, then an extension of the Blue Line makes sense, even though there are bus routes that service it from McKnight/Westwinds. But an extension from the Blue Line would mean any service from downtown would take about as long as the express buses do (and the express buses have a 'premium' price tag). So if the goal is connecting downtown to the airport you're paying for an LRT extension that doesn't improve transport time, and has a lesser rate of return.

Or it's a connector from the Green Line, which would require building the Green Line north (which is too expensive now)

Or it's a dedicated express airport train, presumably from downtown. So it's building new infrastructure for a single-use train that would only service people in the city with easy transit access to downtown in the first place. Highly catered to international business travel (is this a smart thing to weigh such an expensive project against) and two weeks of Stampede. The only hope for such a route is that it piggybacks off existing rail infrastructure (which causes all sorts of problems) and/or is wedged in as part of the Banff rail plan/pipe dream as part of a provincial and federal driven project. But the city's scope would have to remain as narrow as possible just to ensure a beneficial routing. But given how much provincial and federal money is involved with the Green Line and Convention Centre projects that people are complaining about, it doesn't change the perception of city spending if they get involved with this.

If money being spent eficciently is your concern, then there isn't really an airport train plan that can be justified economically.



As for the airport tunnel, that was always about building a piece of infrastructure when it was cheapest to do so (before the runway went in, rather than after). People rail on the city for not planning well enough, but the tunnel was planned so far ahead that it will look like it's a waste until it becomes critical. I'm all for building less roads, but the cost of boring underneath an active runway would raise costs exponentially when it would be needed.

[rage2]

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As for the airport tunnel, that was always about building a piece of infrastructure when it was cheapest to do so (before the runway went in, rather than after). People rail on the city for not planning well enough, but the tunnel was planned so far ahead that it will look like it's a waste until it becomes critical. I'm all for building less roads, but the cost of boring underneath an active runway would raise costs exponentially when it would be needed.

The argument (at least my argument) was why Airport Trail was even needed when country hills is right there.

[kertejud2]

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The argument (at least my argument) was why Airport Trail was even needed when country hills is right there.

Without Airport Trail there would be a 7km gap in connector roads between Country Hills and McKnight going East/West. That would be fine if all that existed up there was the airport as a destination, or was planned to exist was the airport as the only destination. But in addition to the 30-50,000 people that live East of the Airport now, and the 30-50,000 more that are accounted for in planning between Country Hills and 80th Ave, that's a lot of potential traffic to filter to two roads 7km apart from each other without taking into account the airport traffic itself. Metrics dictate road building in this city (much to drivers advantage), and with all that predicted traffic, build the connector while the opportunity was available.

The delay in getting Airport Trail connected to Stoney in any meaningful way is the weird part, but I'm not one to lament money not spent on roads so I'll leave that fight for others.

[ExtraSlow]

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They aren’t widening center street

Hellz no, vehicle capacity on centre will be less than 50% after this.

[beyond_ban]

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Hellz no, vehicle capacity on centre will be less than 50% after this.

That road is going to be undriveable 75% of the time with it down to one lane either way.

[gmc72]

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Hellz no, vehicle capacity on centre will be less than 50% after this.

One lane each way with the same bus service as well. Good luck getting anywhere south of 16th during rush hour.

[firebane]

Interesting read: https://twitter.com/RicMcIver/status...49963192262656

[Xtrema]

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Yeah, 16th ave station is underground

Edit: Actually ... the new design seems to be at grade?

Now I may miss a bit of the development here and there.

Was the original orange line plan got changed due to technical issue or budget issue? Or both?


The original plan is way more future proof but I can see nobody having the political capital to do that one, especially since UCP threaten to not paying for the provincial portion d

[rage2]

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Without Airport Trail there would be a 7km gap in connector roads between Country Hills and McKnight going East/West.

That's a fine argument, except Airport Trail reduces that gap by less than 1.5km. So it really doesn't do a whole lot.

[killramos]

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That road is going to be undriveable 75% of the time with it down to one lane either way.

They might as well have torn it up and kept it entirely above ground and reuse Center street bridge.

Because that road will be neutered permanently from the day construction starts.

Remember just because the train is there does not preclude them from continuing to run buses up and down the only remaining lane (stopping every 50 feet while they go).

Someone should make a list if everyone who has touched that project as unhirable morons.

IMO thus should result in an immediate 10% haircut to Mount Pleasent, Tuxedo Park, and Crescent Heights property values. Neighborhoods destroyed.

[speedog]

The north section would've been a great time for the city of Calgary to put it's big boy pants on and put it underground until around the Thorncliffe pool where Centre Street actually gets wider and a neutered Centre Street wouldn't have to exist as a part of street level LRT that'll prove to be worse than the 36th Street NE mess.

As for as Airport Trail, I like the tunnel as I use it regularly - just is more convenient when I'm working in the far NE. The delays in getting it opened all the way to Stoney, I believe a lot of that was dependent upon the CoC getting the airport intersections at Barlow and 19th Street reconfigured which is now underway. The last unopened section of Airport Trail is pretty much good to go, all the infrastructure is in place, probably just minor things that need to be done to open it up.

[bjstare]

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I like mass transit....

I always figured there was something a little off about you, didn't realize you were a full on psychopath.


This will render centre st useless for cars, and all traffic will go to edmonton tr, 4st (and 10st south of 16th), which will bone them as well.

[rage2]

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IMO thus should result in an immediate 10% haircut to Mount Pleasent, Tuxedo Park, and Crescent Heights property values. Neighborhoods destroyed.

Wonder how much $ was spent on acquiring property in Crescent Heights. Fucking cuts right through some expensive houses!

[killramos]

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Wonder how much $ was spent on acquiring property in Crescent Heights. Fucking cuts right through some expensive houses!

Money is no object. We are a World Class city after all.

[ExtraSlow]

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I always figured there was something a little off about you, didn't realize you were a full on psychopath..

wow, you are the second person this afternoon to say that there's "something a little off" about me.

Ouch.

[speedog]

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Wonder how much $ was spent on acquiring property in Crescent Heights. Fucking cuts right through some expensive houses!

The new surface route (green line on picture below) affects no homes in Crescent Heights or am I looking at the map wrong?

[ExtraSlow]

None of the plans involved cutting through those crescent heights houses. Original plan was to tunnel under them, now plan goes around them.

[Tik-Tok]

They should just turn Center Street into bicycles only anyways. It can be just like Stephen Ave! Utilize the existing Center St. bridge for the train and save a ton of money.

[ExtraSlow]

That makes more sense than this stupidity.