Been out of the PC build game for years, what mobo/cpu/ram path to take from here?

[Mitsu3000gt]

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Its pretty nuts that stock processors can boost a single core up to 5.3 ghz nowadays.

Note the laundry list of caveats on that thermal boost, it's mostly just marketing. A bunch of conditions have to be met for you to get 5.3 Ghz on one core for a few seconds, as soon as the CPU hits 70C (which it will almost instantly) you're done. They are still using 6-year-old Skylake underlying architecture on the ancient 14nm node. Some of the 10th gen CPUs are actually slower than the 9th gen variants depending on the task, and others are literally re-branded 9th gen units (and some of those are re-branded 8th gen). Most people looking at a 10900K are probably going to be better served by a Ryzen 3900X and come September when you can order a 4900X it won't even be close. Personally I am upgrading as soon as the 4950X lands later in Q4.

With Ryzen 4000 around the corner (and already here in laptops) there is virtually no reason to buy Intel this year outside of a few very specific niche scenarios. The ultra low voltage U series Ryzen 4000 CPUs are performing more similar to Intel's full wattage H series despite the Intel CPU having triple the TDP.

On the mobile side, all Intel is doing is lowering their base clocks to hilariously low levels (like 1 Ghz) so they can advertise lower TDPs (Intel measures TDP at base clock which is almost never relevant). Most of the changes have to do with thermals and lowering TDP, not improving IPC or architecture, and their core count is still not competitive.

Some good general info here on intel 10th gen desktop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA6pq4vj4lI

More here but it's an earlier video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vjj6UyPGUtE

Here is the Ryzen 4900HS 35W part destroying Intel's ultra high end i9-9880H in both single core and multi core despite the Intel being fed 90W of power and despite the Ryzen CPU being clocked lower: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9JcW_LtXH8&t=360s

Thanks to Ryzen 4000 mobile you can now buy Gaming/Creation laptops with 12hr battery life when doing normal tasks (obviously lower if gaming). That's pretty incredible.

AMD is absolutely killing it this year, and they are moving to 5nm for 2021 for Zen 4 which will be another significant performance bump. Pretty hard to recommend Intel to anyone in 2020 and probably also 2021 as they still can't really get their 10nm process off the ground outside a few mobile CPUs that are not even competitive anymore.

And the saddest thing (for me), is that 35W Ryzen 4900HS mobile CPU outperforms my i7-7820X Xtreme HEDT series Skylake-X desktop CPU which has a 140W TDP and pulls close to 200W under load. Absolutely incredible what AMD has done this year IMHO. I can buy a 0.7" thick 14" laptop that will outperform my $5000 desktop in some tasks LOL.

[pheoxs]

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Note the laundry list of caveats on that thermal boost, it's mostly just marketing. A bunch of conditions have to be met for you to get 5.3 Ghz on one core for a few seconds, as soon as the CPU hits 70C (which it will almost instantly) you're done. They are still using 6-year-old Skylake underlying architecture on the ancient 14nm node. Some of the 10th gen CPUs are actually slower than the 9th gen variants depending on the task, and others are literally re-branded 9th gen units (and some of those are re-branded 8th gen).

With Ryzen 4000 around the corner (and already here in laptops) there is virtually no reason to buy Intel this year outside of a few very specific niche scenarios. The ultra low voltage U series Ryzen 4000 CPUs are performing more similar to Intel's full wattage H series despite the Intel CPU having triple the TDP.

On the mobile side, all Intel is doing is lowering their base clocks to hilariously low levels (like 1 Ghz) so they can advertise lower TDPs (Intel measures TDP at base clock which is almost never relevant)

Some good general info here on intel 10th gen desktop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DA6pq4vj4lI

More here but it's an earlier video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vjj6UyPGUtE

Here is the Ryzen 4900HS 35W part destroying Intel's ultra high end i9-9880H in both single core and multi core despite the Intel being fed 90W of power and despite the Ryzen CPU being clocked lower: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9JcW_LtXH8&t=360s

Thanks to Ryzen 4000 mobile you can now buy Gaming/Creation laptops with 12hr battery life when doing normal tasks (obviously lower if gaming). That's pretty incredible.

AMD is absolutely killing it this year, and they are moving to 5nm for 2021 for Zen 4 which will be another significant performance bump. Pretty hard to recommend Intel to anyone in 2020 and probably also 2021 as they still can't really get their 10nm process off the ground outside a few mobile CPUs that are not even competitive anymore.

And the saddest thing (for me), is that 35W Ryzen 4900HS mobile CPU outperforms my i7-7820X Xtreme HEDT series Skylake-X desktop CPU which has a 140W TDP and pulls close to 200W under load. Absolutely incredible what AMD has done this year IMHO. I can buy a 0.7" thick 14" laptop that will outperform my $5000 desktop in some tasks LOL.

Its actually crazy when you consider AMD's entire history. Their athlon series was actually really strong but then intel started getting so many games optimized better for their architectures to limit AMD. Then intel wasn't properly protecting their kernels in order to get better performance (similar to VW cheating emissions if you want a car comparison). Yet the whole way AMD just kept on going and getting better and better. Now that intel had to patch their memory leaks they are getting stomped across the board by the Zen processors.

[Mitsu3000gt]

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Its actually crazy when you consider AMD's entire history. Their athlon series was actually really strong but then intel started getting so many games optimized better for their architectures to limit AMD. Then intel wasn't properly protecting their kernels in order to get better performance (similar to VW cheating emissions if you want a car comparison). Yet the whole way AMD just kept on going and getting better and better. Now that intel had to patch their memory leaks they are getting stomped across the board by the Zen processors.

Yup, the last AMD CPU I bought was an Athalon unit 15-20 years ago or however long it's been now. When I bought my i7-7820X (which is embarrassed by a 35W Ryzen laptop CPU now) it was either that or the Ryzen 1800X. At the time, the Intel was a hair faster for photo/video editing, so I went that route. Now, I can't see myself buying another Intel CPU for a very long time, at least until they get their act together.

Intel isn't even chasing them, they are pumping out more 6-year old Skylake CPUs on 14nm while AMD has dropped to 7nm this year and is already confirmed for 5nm next year. AMD and Nvidia have already reserved most of TSMC's 5nm manufacturing capacity for 2021.

The real key though is the OEM and mobile market. Intel's enthusiast / custom build market is a drop in the bucket compared to their sales to Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc. We're at an interesting point in time where Intel/Nvidia have the OEMs by the balls, but customers want the Ryzen CPUs for the dramatically better performance and battery life.

If you look at Intel's presentation slides, note they don't compare themselves to Ryzen, but they compare themselves to a 4 year old Intel setup instead, and if you go read the fine print on the system configurations, they are using way better video cards on the systems running the benchmarks they want you to focus on. Don't trust anything Intel puts out unless you have read the fine print. They are getting destroyed by AMD right now and are doing everything they can to get you to look the other way.

The iGPU side is equally as impressive. The Ryzen mobile CPUs are using iGPUs that are so fast, Nvidia had to come out with the MX450 discrete GPU to pair with the equivalent Intel CPU to match. AMD also has some really cool tech in their 4000 series mobile CPUs, if the CPU and discrete GPU are sharing a heat pipe, the laptop can dynamically feed more power to the CPU for CPU intensive tasks, or the GPU for more GPU dependent tasks. It also works with Nvidia optimus tech so the iGPU is used for light tasks and the dGPU only kicks in for more demanding things like games. The combination of those two things along with the 7nm CPUs sipping power is how you are getting 12hr battery life in ultra-thin gaming laptops now if you're just watching YouTube or something basic.

[Super_Geo]

Man, I wish Dell would get AMD processors into their XPS laptops... the new XPS 13 and 15 are goregous.
I have the XPS13 but w/ covid found myself using it docked 24/7 and it was decimating the battery with prolonged plugged in use under high load (and heat).

Stoked to get on board this new hardware cycle!

[ExtraSlow]

One great thing Lenovo laptops have is battery management software that will start and stop charging so you don't toast your battery. I have min set to only charge when below 50% and it stops at 80%, so it rarely charges.

[Mitsu3000gt]

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Man, I wish Dell would get AMD processors into their XPS laptops... the new XPS 13 and 15 are goregous.
I have the XPS13 but w/ covid found myself using it docked 24/7 and it was decimating the battery with prolonged plugged in use under high load (and heat).

Stoked to get on board this new hardware cycle!

If you want an XPS but with Ryzen, check out the Asus G14/G15. The 14” model is actually the more premium of the two. Anyway they are about as thin as an XPS (0.7”) have a lot more power, and are probably cheaper. They also weigh around a pound less than the previous gen XPS15, though I haven’t checked the weight of the brand new XPS 15/17 announced this month. No SD card reader or webcam though as it’s technically a gaming machine, but you’d never know it. I was all set to buy the new XPS15 as well until I saw there were no Ryzen options - for a machine aimed squarely at creatives that is a deal breaker imo. Thermals are such an issue in those powerful ultra-thin machines that Ryzen should be the obvious choice there too but nope. I think the relationship between intel and some OEMs is complicated. All these thin laptops with Intel CPUs are going to throttle down to half the advertised clock speed after a matter of seconds under load as per usual, along with lots of fan noise.

Asus also has the charging tech that ExtraSlow mentioned, its a really nice feature for properly maintaining the battery.

I’m going to wait until at least June as there is a lot of Ryzen product coming out in May/June (Asus and Lenovo mostly) and then I’m likely going to pull the trigger on an Asus G14 with the Ryzen 9 4900HS. My 2011 Zenbook still runs like the day I got it and the battery still holds over 90% capacity, but a 2-core i5, 4gb ram and no gpu isn’t cutting it for much more than browsing these days. I will miss the full Metal grid in between the keys that makes it so solid, but I don’t think anyone is making laptops like that anymore.

If you’re after a thin & light like the xps13 but with ryzen, Lenovo is probably your best bet at the moment. The mid range Ryzen 4000 ultra low voltage CPUs are destroying intel’s best i7 U series (the new 10nm ones) and are much closer to their H series which you will only find in larger machines because they can’t cool them otherwise.

Edit: sorry for the shit grammar, this iPad keyboard has a mind of its own and Im too lazy to fix everything.

[OTown]

If you have the money, get an M.2 SSD.

[mazdavirgin]

We are seeing some pretty serious supply side issues in the IC market and that is bleeding over into the consumer market. Probably not a great time to be trying to build your own computer at the moment. Lots of bizarre pricing due to supply contractions and you can see this especially if you start looking for motherboards. Currently the pre built side of things seems to be faring better as I assume they have better grasps on their supply chains. Not sure if things are going to be getting better in the next few months or worse. Time will tell...

[Mitsu3000gt]

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We are seeing some pretty serious supply side issues in the IC market and that is bleeding over into the consumer market. Probably not a great time to be trying to build your own computer at the moment. Lots of bizarre pricing due to supply contractions and you can see this especially if you start looking for motherboards. Currently the pre built side of things seems to be faring better as I assume they have better grasps on their supply chains. Not sure if things are going to be getting better in the next few months or worse. Time will tell...

I don't think it's affecting the enthusiast market just yet.

I helped a friend build a gaming PC earlier this week and it was super easy to find everything. Every Memory Express location including their warehouse had "10+" of the most popular X570 mobo ($230), and CPU / GPU / RAM / SSD, etc. was easy to source. RAM and SSDs are cheaper than they have ever been (at least the popular stuff like Samsung 970 Evos and Trident Z RAM). 32GB of 3200 Mhz Trident Z ram is under $200. a 1TB 970 EVO SSD is still only $250. 3 years ago I bought the same set of RAM for over $400. Briefly checking Z390 mobos as well, looks like there are plenty in stock.

At least at the moment, there does not appear to be a shortage of parts for someone wanting to build a PC and pricing is as cheap as it's ever been. If what you say is true, I don't think it's hit the custom build market quite yet.

[Super_Geo]

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If you want an XPS but with Ryzen, check out the Asus G14/G15. The 14” model is actually the more premium of the two. Anyway they are about as thin as an XPS (0.7”) have a lot more power, and are probably cheaper. They also weigh around a pound less than the previous gen XPS15, though I haven’t checked the weight of the brand new XPS 15/17 announced this month. No SD card reader or webcam though as it’s technically a gaming machine, but you’d never know it. I was all set to buy the new XPS15 as well until I saw there were no Ryzen options - for a machine aimed squarely at creatives that is a deal breaker imo. Thermals are such an issue in those powerful ultra-thin machines that Ryzen should be the obvious choice there too but nope. I think the relationship between intel and some OEMs is complicated. All these thin laptops with Intel CPUs are going to throttle down to half the advertised clock speed after a matter of seconds under load as per usual, along with lots of fan noise.

Asus also has the charging tech that ExtraSlow mentioned, its a really nice feature for properly maintaining the battery.

I’m going to wait until at least June as there is a lot of Ryzen product coming out in May/June (Asus and Lenovo mostly) and then I’m likely going to pull the trigger on an Asus G14 with the Ryzen 9 4900HS. My 2011 Zenbook still runs like the day I got it and the battery still holds over 90% capacity, but a 2-core i5, 4gb ram and no gpu isn’t cutting it for much more than browsing these days. I will miss the full Metal grid in between the keys that makes it so solid, but I don’t think anyone is making laptops like that anymore.

If you’re after a thin & light like the xps13 but with ryzen, Lenovo is probably your best bet at the moment. The mid range Ryzen 4000 ultra low voltage CPUs are destroying intel’s best i7 U series (the new 10nm ones) and are much closer to their H series which you will only find in larger machines because they can’t cool them otherwise.

Edit: sorry for the shit grammar, this iPad keyboard has a mind of its own and Im too lazy to fix everything.

Awesome, thanks for all that info!
Looks like my upgrade path is Zen3 mobo/cpu, m.2, stick with the 1080ti.

Then get the XPS15 when it gets an AMD option

[Mitsu3000gt]

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Awesome, thanks for all that info!
Looks like my upgrade path is Zen3 mobo/cpu, m.2, stick with the 1080ti.

Then get the XPS15 when it gets an AMD option

Sounds like a great plan Zen 3 (not to be confused with Ryzen 3000 which is Zen 2) will be announced in September (Ryzen 4000 desktop series) if all goes well. Original announcement was scheduled for this May but that didn't happen due to the virus.

For the M2 drive, I would just grab a Samsung 970 Evo or Evo Plus in the size that you want.

The two go-to motherboards for Ryzen 3000 are the Asus TUF X570 and the Gigabyte Aorus Elite X570. Both are under $300 and the Asus TUF is the cheaper of the two ($230 I believe). The biggest difference is that the Gigabyte board uses Intel LAN rather than Realtek LAN (Intel LAN is better), but most people will never notice a difference. If you're getting Zen3/Ryzen 4000 you will probably want a X670 board when those come out, but the socket will be the same (AM4) until next year, at which point AMD will release Zen 4 (Ryzen 5000 series) on the AM5 socket and 5nm process.

I use a 1080Ti as well - it is still a pretty sought after card from what I understand and the 2000 series was only OK. Nivida's 3000 series (Ampere) is right around the corner though and will apparently be a bigger jump than the 1000 --> 2000 series, and the process is changing to 7nm as well.

I apologize as I kind of derailed the thread into laptops as well, but sounds like it's still relevant.

[Super_Geo]

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Sounds like a great plan Zen 3 (not to be confused with Ryzen 3000 which is Zen 2) will be announced in September (Ryzen 4000 desktop series) if all goes well. Original announcement was scheduled for this May but that didn't happen due to the virus.
...
I apologize as I kind of derailed the thread into laptops as well, but sounds like it's still relevant.

Ah, September, damn it........
Impulse XPS17 purchase as a stop-gap?


moneyshot at 10:05...

[Mitsu3000gt]

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Ah, September, damn it........
Impulse XPS17 purchase as a stop-gap?


moneyshot at 10:05...

I actually watched the same video recently, looking more into the new XPS laptops they look pretty sweet other than the Intel CPUs (every "first look" review I've seen so far basically says all its missing is Ryzen). Hopefully they offer that in the next wave.

The XPS17 actually looks like the way to go if you can handle the weight. It's about as big as the previous XPS15 which is impressive, and it has better cooling and better speakers than the newest XPS15. The new 15 looks good too though, and it's amazing how much smaller it was than the old XPS15 which was already one of the smaller 15 inchers.

If Dell comes out with Ryzen versions, these will probably be a no-brainer for a lot of people.

[taemo]

trying to catch up with the latest hardware out there, the Ryzen 3600 seems to be the best bang for the buck but I would need to upgrade cpu + mobo + ram + gpu,
might as well switch back to mid tower case as I find my miniITX cube case bulkier than a mid-tower case so it would be a full rebuild for me lol

right now I have a i7 4790 + 16GB + gtx 1060 and considering a r5 3600 + b450 mobo (should I go x570?) + 16GB + RX5600 or RTX 2060, from the looks of it I will get about 20-30% gain.

I should be able to get 500-600$ for my current hw?

[The_Rural_Juror]

I recently built a 3600X system with a B450 and 5700XT in mATX. There aren't a lot of mobos available at memex for that format. I was tempted to go with X570 but was advised against that as PCIE Gen 4 isn't really being utilized according to the tech.
This is my second Ryzen setup and I love it. Went from 4790 to 2700 to 3600x. I find Nvidia GPUs to be less buggy but I have a freesync monitor and the 5700XT was on sale. Would probably return to Nvidia next time as I don't really game.

Want to buy my cube so I can build an mITX setup?

[taemo]

what case are you running and b450 mobo?

only considering the x570 so that I can run 2 nvme pcie card on the mobo but not a big deal to me.
did you notice a perceivable difference upgrading from intel to amd?

[The_Rural_Juror]

Thermaltake VT and Gigabyte Aorus M. MemEx dudes really dislike MSI mobos and I have had good experience with Gigabyte previously. There isn't a lot of selection for mATX. The Gigabyte X570 would have been nice to get integrated wifi. I didn't realize that the wifi module requires a USB connection and I was one short, forcing me to buy a USB splitter. I used a WD Black 1TB nvme on the one slot with a 3.5" SATA and those are plenty for me.

No difference in AMD, other than it feels like I have never had an issue with it performance wise. In contrast - 4790 burned out after about 2 years and I think the intel before that lasted 3 years. Certainly better value for money. The cooler that comes with the AMD processor is apparently quite good, but I always buy an aftermarket even though I don't overclock. I probably should have purchased the 3600 or jumped to the 3700x.

Comparison of 3600 to 3600x: https://www.techspot.com/article/188...3600x-vs-3600/

[zechs]

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trying to catch up with the latest hardware out there, the Ryzen 3600 seems to be the best bang for the buck but I would need to upgrade cpu + mobo + ram + gpu,
might as well switch back to mid tower case as I find my miniITX cube case bulkier than a mid-tower case so it would be a full rebuild for me lol

right now I have a i7 4790 + 16GB + gtx 1060 and considering a r5 3600 + b450 mobo (should I go x570?) + 16GB + RX5600 or RTX 2060, from the looks of it I will get about 20-30% gain.

I should be able to get 500-600$ for my current hw?

You'll want X570. AMD has been in a shitstorm the past week because they screwed B450 mobo customers. B450 will not support the newest zen2 desktop processors. You'll be stuck at the 3600 (or could pay for a 3950x I suppose) as your only upgrade path unless you change mobos.

My tomahawk max has been great, and I love the 3600, but I would have bought a X570 board for an extra $70 if I knew I'd never be able to upgrade

The 3600 runs surprisingly warm. Do not run the oem cooler, unless you like having a vacuum cleaner on at all times. I ended up undervolting the 3600 slightly and put a All-In-One 120mm water cooler on it, swapped the fans out for Noctua pressure 140mm fans. Silent under full load.

Definitely an upgrade over my 4670k that was oc'd on air to 4.1ghz.

[D'z Nutz]

I built my photo editing rig with a 3600 and Gigabyte B450 Aorus Elite back in December and I've been really happy with it. Granted, I was coming from an 8 year old i7 2600k so anything modern would have been substantially better haha

I was flip flopping between the 3600 and 3600x for a while too but ultimately decided the 3600. Benchmarks showed that the 3600x was only marginally better, but since I don't game, the 3600 more than suited my needs and I probably wouldn't have noticed the difference when editing photos.

[The_Rural_Juror]

I always get a new mobo with a processor, so that didn't bother me as much. 3950 is a pretty big jump from 3600 either way. AMD stuff seems to run pretty hot but within spec. I also undervolt my 5700XT because it runs pretty hot without noticeable detriment to performance. More for my piece of mind than anything. Currently chasing down @zipdoa on F@H with this rig after slacking off for a couple of weeks.

Taemo: if you do end up going the 3600 route without an AIO, you can have my brand new 3600x spire cooler.