Unusual Experience with a dealership

[2020]

4square is just the beginning, the sharks in the finance office is much worse.

[Buster]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I have changed my mind on a couple of cars after test drives, so I couldn't do that. Even things like the AMG sport seats I assumed would be uncomfy but after the test drive I was sold on them. You are brave doing that all sight unseen but I remember you tell me that back when you used to go to CFC.

I dont think the deal-making needs to be done at the same time as the shopping, I guess is my point. You can do the touchy-feely stuff in the showroom. Then you can do a test drive. Then you can follow-up with the email exchange. Email is really efficient from a car buying perspective, as you don't have to waste ANY time on the deal itself. I get them to send me a quote (always an out the door quote), then I reply with my OTD offer. If they don't like it, I go about my day until I have time to get back to them or just move on. Very little time investment. I'm not certain, but I also believe that the dealership staff assume you are someone who knows what they are doing and don't mess with you as much. They just view you as a low margin customer that they can just consider a flow-through deal that's low effort on both sides. Oftentimes I will email the sales manager directly and let him decide if he like the deal. Usually then they will just assign it to a sales guy prepackaged to complete the paperwork.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

I’ve never experienced the four square tactic, do they not bother if you straight up tell them you’re only shopping in cash?

[Buster]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I’ve never experienced the four square tactic, do they not bother if you straight up tell them you’re only shopping in cash?

I assume so, but I never tell a dealer I'm a cash buyer up front.

[killramos]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I’ve never experienced the four square tactic, do they not bother if you straight up tell them you’re only shopping in cash?

Most people do not have the ability to shop for cash.

4 Square is a tool for the 98%, 2% get pissed off and walk but that’s not nearly enough for them to stop doing it.

When I bought my Sierra they pulled that on me. I just rolled my eyes and leaned on my car cost report and pointed out that the math on 0% financing doesn’t leave them much room to hide things lol. My negotiation was essentially “ find me a truck with the options and in one of the 3 colours I can tolerate and you will get a sale”

Made the finance guys head spin when I made him write me a check for my trade and not roll it into payment. Couldn’t figure out why I didn’t want to lend them the money at 0% interest lol.

[HiSpec]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I assume so, but I never tell a dealer I'm a cash buyer up front.

From what I understand, the buyer have more room to negotiate if it's financed because the dealership can make money off the interest. Once the OTD pricing is locked down, then tell the F&I guy you changed your mind to cash.

[s2k_boi]

It's not allowed but some try to get away with that. Another dealership at Southtrail tried that with my parents.

[Buster]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Most people do not have the ability to shop for cash.

4 Square is a tool for the 98%, 2% get pissed off and walk but that’s not nearly enough for them to stop doing it.

When I bought my Sierra they pulled that on me. I just rolled my eyes and leaned on my car cost report and pointed out that the math on 0% financing doesn’t leave them much room to hide things lol. My negotiation was essentially “ find me a truck with the options and in one of the 3 colours I can tolerate and you will get a sale”

Made the finance guys head spin when I made him write me a check for my trade and not roll it into payment. Couldn’t figure out why I didn’t want to lend them the money at 0% interest lol.

You would have saved on gst though

- - - Updated - - -

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

From what I understand, the buyer have more room to negotiate if it's financed because the dealership can make money off the interest. Once the OTD pricing is locked down, then tell the F&I guy you changed your mind to cash.

I just don't discuss how I'm paying until I've got the otd price set.

[killramos]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

You would have saved on gst though

Yea I saved my GST still, they essentially treated it as if I had a 100% lien on the vehicle and paid me out as lien holder lol

Face value of the trade went on the books, but lender saw none of the money.

[ercchry]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I've bought most of my cars without test drives.

Having said that, I will test drive a car but never do the actual deal at the time of the test drive. Always over email, never in person.

Speaking of hiding fees and email... jag Edmonton... now that was fun

Just wanted the god damn deal advertised on the jag Canada website for lease.

They would not give numbers via email to out of town clients
They tack on every single finance office (non-residual) money maker In every single vehicle on the lot before a deal is even made

Took the $600/month lease that was advertised and made it over $900/month and nothing but annoying phone calls when I was trying to work and told them explicitly to email me.

Long story short, I now have a ford ranger

[sabad66]

Happened to us a few years ago when we were shopping around for an SUV. We were looking at Grand Cherokees and the chrysler dealership we were at pulled the same crap - they would never give me a full breakdown line item by line item - just payment amounts. And if i said it was too high, they went to the back room to "talk to the finance guys" and then came back with a different payment number. It actually felt like a joke at one point.

We ended up walking, but then talking to a few friends who worked car sales they pretty much said this is how they are trained.

Like already mentioned above, this works for almost all people coming in to buy a car (all they care about is payment amount) so thats why they do it this way. You would think at some point it would be obvious certain buyers are more financially literate and then change their strategy to make the sale but apparently a lot don't.

[rage2]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I just don't discuss how I'm paying until I've got the otd price set.

That's easy to do with high priced vehicles. In your average vehicles, incentives are tied to the method of payment. Typical 40k vehicle purchase, a cash purchases gets a $3000 cash incentive, while finance/lease gets "0%" rate but not the incentive, effectively you're paying $3k interest over the term of your "0%" interest rate. This is why in BC and other provinces by law they have to show effective finance rate, which takes into account any incentives not qualified for because it's a finance purchase. Alberta doesn't have this law so it's hidden. This isn't even the dealer at this point, this is from the manufacturer to help advertise fake low interest rates.

Go shop for an average vehicle, select BC as location and see the interest rate + effective rates.

Quick pull on a Nissan Rogue. $5000 cash discount. That's your extra interest payment haha. 0% is all of a sudden >5%.

[ercchry]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

You would think at some point it would be obvious certain buyers are more financially literate and then change their strategy to make the sale but apparently a lot don't.

Step one would be to find a car salesman (at a shitty brand) that is capable of not only independent thought but also financially literate themselves

[Buster]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

That's easy to do with high priced vehicles. In your average vehicles, incentives are tied to the method of payment. Typical 40k vehicle purchase, a cash purchases gets a $3000 cash incentive, while finance/lease gets "0%" rate but not the incentive, effectively you're paying $3k interest over the term of your "0%" interest rate. This is why in BC and other provinces by law they have to show effective finance rate, which takes into account any incentives not qualified for because it's a finance purchase. Alberta doesn't have this law so it's hidden. This isn't even the dealer at this point, this is from the manufacturer to help advertise fake low interest rates.

Go shop for an average vehicle, select BC as location and see the interest rate + effective rates.

Quick pull on a Nissan Rogue. $5000 cash discount. That's your extra interest payment haha. 0% is all of a sudden >5%.

I think you can get the cash incentive from a CCC report, can't you?

[ExtraSlow]

I actually know several people in auto sales, and yes, thier level of financial and actual literacy varies widely.

People joke about the former hockey player oilpatch salesbros, but auto sales has a much lower entry requirement.

[rage2]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think you can get the cash incentive from a CCC report, can't you?

Of course. You can get it from the Manufacturers website too as it's typically published. I'm just saying you can't negotiate an out the door price with a dealer without determine the method of payment first.

[Neil4Speed]

This is brutal, its ridiculous some of the stuff that dealerships pull.

I think the most insane thing that I saw was in the winter when I tried to buy a car from Go Auto in Edmonton, for their asking price as a cash deal. They stated that they will not sell cars for cash, you MUST finance.

[Buster]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Of course. You can get it from the Manufacturers website too as it's typically published. I'm just saying you can't negotiate an out the door price with a dealer without determine the method of payment first.

I'm 99 percent sure that when I bought my gla Mercedes was not offering a cash discount in lieu of financing.

[killramos]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'm 99 percent sure that when I bought my gla Mercedes was not offering a cash discount in lieu of financing.

Usually only a thing if they have a below market finance rate, like the 0’s and 0.9’s. They aren’t going to give a discount versus collecting 6% interest.

[revelations]

Yep, another thread on why not to deal with the big city dealers. They will hose you the best way possible.

Best to get quotes from the smaller towns, or even out of province. Its a huge purchase for most - why not save 5-10% where you can?