Black Lives Matter discussion

[RawB8figure]

[max_boost]

Do us minorities specifically Asians get a pass on this?

[Supa Dexta]

What a bunch of fkn idiots... I hope covid runs the economy into deep depression suffering and plight... Time for a wake up call for these softies.

[OTown]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Remember the massive response when armed protesters stormed the Michigan statehouse? Me neither.

Remember when a black lawmaker did the exact same thing days after with armed black escort of men and women with rifles and handguns, and the exact same thing happened?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...htwing-protest

- - - Updated - - -

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Despite Floyd being drunk, on drugs and whatever else, why didn’t the cops just toss him into the back of the SUV? Was he resisting arrest or being difficult?

Yep, there is footage of him physically resisting getting into the vehicle and another angle shows cops struggling with him when he is in the vehicle.

[Power_Of_Rotary]

Does this matter? Resisting arrest initially does not justify 9 minute choke hold once the perp is subdued. The cop went on a power trip and took out his frustration on him. Or he was just showing off to the 2 rookies hes training lmao.

[OTown]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Does this matter? Resisting arrest initially does not justify 9 minute choke hold once the perp is subdued. The cop went on a power trip and took out his frustration on him. Or he was just showing off to the 2 rookies hes training lmao.

It doesn't allow it, no. I agree with you there.

What it does show is context. The initial narrative was that he was completely peaceful and cooperative and was put on the ground and choked because he was black. That narrative is still out there.

[max_boost]

Someone explain - defunding the police or disbanding etc.

So who am I gonna call then? Who gonna enforce?

[Power_Of_Rotary]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Someone explain - defunding the police or disbanding etc.

So who am I gonna call then? Who gonna enforce?

Ghost busters!

[Supa Dexta]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Someone explain - defunding the police or disbanding etc.

So who am I gonna call then? Who gonna enforce?

no.no.no.. You're not paying attention - the cops ARE the problem, once they are gone, the problem is gone. And whitey, they gotta go too.

Or.. https://twitter.com/RyanAFournier/st...XuDUlmuuXb9eCo

[speedog]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It doesn't allow it, no. I agree with you there.

What it does show is context. The initial narrative was that he was completely peaceful and cooperative and was put on the ground and choked because he was black. That narrative is still out there.

And it may not have been because George was black, after all they did both work at the same establishment years before. Maybe, just maybe, there was some incident that took place in that work place for which the policie officer kept a grudge and this incident years later which resulted in a chance meeting between the two just caused that officer to snap. If so, it still doesn't justify what he did and what complicates the matter is it is a white guy effectively exerting enough control to snuff out a black guy's life.

If it turns out to be just this, some guy exacting revenge in the wrong way years later - would've a different skin color for George have made a difference in the outcome we're seeing now? I'm not excusing the fact that the officer certainly appears to be a stain on the police force and most certainly should've been excused from his duties years ago - that, in itself, speaks to a big problem that that particular police force needs to address. Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, the other man's skin color has muddied those waters and maybe rightly so because if it wasn't going to be this incident then it was going to be another incident that set off the powder keg.

Hell, I am a white male boomer - being white sometimes these days is considered elitist, being male sometimes the same thing and being a boomer, well, that just means I'm here to fuck over the generations after me. But I am not a racist - I learned long ago when I was a child what it was like to be marginilized as a person and that was because of my germanic ancestry. Being Germanic back in the sixties and seventies where I grew up in southern Alberta meant you got picked on, it didn't matter if your ancestors were well established in Canada well before any of the two world wars - the fact that you had a suspect last name was enough to incite rage in others. My grandparents used to be followed every time they left their farm in the 30's and 40's and they were born in southern Alberta and had zero in ties back to Prussia (they weren't even German) but the wrong last name made them immediately suspect in the eyes of the authorities.

So as I learned of these things and through my own growing up, being not tolerant of racism was something that became a part of me. I grew up with Japanese kids whose families had everything taken away from them in WW2 and has to start over with nothing - their families had nothing to do with what was happening overseas and yet they were marginalized because of who they were. Hell, the shacks these families lived in were absolutely horrid after they were released from the camps in southern Alberta - my experiances were all quite an eye opener for me as a child/teenager and permanently imprinted upon me as to how wrong racism is.

I am somewhat anxiously waiting Trump's supposed address on racism and all coming up this mid-week - I have absolutely no use for that man but because of his mishandling of the situations around him, his advisors are probably going to try to have him come out as some sort of sympathetic saviour come mid-week. I truly believe the man doesn't give a damn, he's still going to pander to which ever mindless fools that gobble up the offal he continuously ejects and he'll just be spewing a different kind of offal later this week to hopefully gain back some lost votes.

[The_Rural_Juror]

How does that explain Breonna Taylor?

[speedog]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

How does that explain Breonna Taylor?

Does it need to?

[sabad66]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Does it need to?

Yes, because this didn't all just start from one isolated independent incident being George Floyd. It was a bunch of incidents (recently being Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Ahmad Arbery) and this just happened to be the one that broke the camel's back.

[speedog]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yes, because this didn't all just start from one isolated independent incident being George Floyd. It was a bunch of incidents (recently being Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Ahmad Arbery) and this just happened to be the one that broke the camel's back.

What I am saying is that the Floyd incident doesn't necessarily have to explain other incidents.

I did post "Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, the other man's skin color has muddied those waters and maybe rightly so because if it wasn't going to be this incident then it was going to be another incident that set off the powder keg."

Not one arrest event that has a sniff of racial overtones should be considered tolerable but racism is still out there alive and well. I worked on a renovation a few months back where the homeowners were the most elitist white privileged pricks you could imagine and outspoken Trump supporters too. I bit my tongue the whole time I was there because it's not a part of my job to be personally engaging customers but the wife at one point told her husband to shut up because it was too apparent that his vocal commentary was intended to get me to bite. Fuck, that was an intense few days doing that job.

[sabad66]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

What I am saying is that the Floyd incident doesn't necessarily have to explain other incidents.

I did post "Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, the other man's skin color has muddied those waters and maybe rightly so because if it wasn't going to be this incident then it was going to be another incident that set off the powder keg."

Not one arrest event that has a sniff of racial overtones should be considered tolerable but racism is still out there alive and well. I worked on a renovation a few months back where the homeowners were the most elitist white privileged pricks you could imagine and outspoken Trump supporters too. I bit my tongue the whole time I was there because it's not a part of my job to be personally engaging customers but the wife at one point told her husband to shut up because it was too apparent that his vocal commentary was intended to get me to bite. Fuck, that was an intense few days doing that job.

Fair enough, I think we generally agree. i missed that sentence where you mentioned it could be another incident that set it off and i'd say you are totally right on that.

That said i think its pretty counter productive to dig deep into George and go down the path of convincing yourself that he was a degenerate that had it coming. This was excessive force and not even remotely justified regardless of his history or whether he may or may not had drugs in his system.

[Antonito]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Someone explain - defunding the police or disbanding etc.

So who am I gonna call then? Who gonna enforce?

Real answer: current American police tactics is not the only possible solution. Divert some of the enormous amount of money that goes to cops to other resources like social workers, change who goes to what calls (you don't need armed people trained to kill at the slightest provocation to be present at a medical issue or traffic stop) and stop buying military surplus for people that aren't in the military. Have SWAT teams for actual armed conflicts but for the majority of incidents have people trained to deal with everyday civilians instead of hardened gangbangers.

One way to do get rid of the institutional rot would be to completely disband the institution and start from the ground up

I'm sure there are full blown anarchists that want to completely disband the police altogether and never replace them with anything, but they should be taken as seriously as this guy:

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

no.no.no.. You're not paying attention - the cops ARE the problem, once they are gone, the problem is gone. And whitey, they gotta go too.

Or.. https://twitter.com/RyanAFournier/st...XuDUlmuuXb9eCo

Holy fuck is he just itching to shoot a minority

[revelations]

The real problems are not just the police (problems there too in America), but the actual criminal laws. For eg. the War on Drugs has been decades long failure at all levels. Private prisons in some states were incentivizing judges/DA's for sentences.

I'm curious to see the end result - besides private armies for the rich and elite - but if the money can be allocated to a new way of policing completely. The States have that power and ability.

[Antonito]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Remember when a black lawmaker did the exact same thing days after with armed black escort of men and women with rifles and handguns, and the exact same thing happened?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...htwing-protest

Why would the lawmaker not be allowed to go into work? It wasn't the guns that made it illegal (guns are allowed in the statehouse for some insane reason), it was the not leaving when directed to, which is the justification given for firing tear gas, tasers and rubber bullets at people at other protests. Also all the anti-quarantine protests that blocked access to hospitals, but nobody was screaming for big rigs to run them down oddly enough

[JRSC00LUDE]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

no.no.no.. You're not paying attention - the cops ARE the problem, once they are gone, the problem is gone. And whitey, they gotta go too.

Or.. https://twitter.com/RyanAFournier/st...XuDUlmuuXb9eCo

It's amazing people are that stupid to not understand what "defunding" police departments can look like. MPD appears to be a prime candidate based not just on this but on City council stating they're little more than a paid protection racket the way they've held the City hostage for funding in the past.

If you don't agree with demilitarizing police responses you're fucking nuts. That doesn't mean there are no police, Antonito laid it out well enough. How anyone can argue against that is mind boggling to me.

[ExtraSlow]

Very interested to see if anywhere successfully "defunds" police. I think there's some merit to the idea that the enormous resources spent on policing have not created asafer or healthier society, particularly in the USA.

I mean, look at the number of people who end up getting killed during "welfare checks" which is madness to me. I think police are the wrong tool for that service.