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    Quote Originally Posted by kertejud2 View Post
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    Do you think that in order for something to be racist or show racial bias, it has to be codified?
    Is the premise of your question that it isn't codified?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kertejud2 View Post
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    Do you think that in order for something to be racist or show racial bias, it has to be codified?
    for it to be racist, yes. For it to have racial bias, I think that’s getting closer.

    Seattle used to have redlining. They literally red lines on a map that black people were allowed to live in. This is a racist policy.

    Today, Seattle is expensive. People with money send their kids to expensive private schools. People in lower income suburbs can’t afford this, and their tax dollars are comparatively smaller, and their schools get less funding. Those schools are not as good, so attending them provides fewer opportunities. This is not racism. There is a disadvantage that can be correlated with race, yes. There are a dozen other races it’s affecting too, including white trailer park kids.

    A couple decades ago, someone had the bright idea that we can fix this with “bussing”. This meant that kids in high income neighborhoods that lived near a school would be legally compelled to get on a bus that takes them to a poor neighborhood to attend school there. And poor kids would be shipped to rich neighborhoods.

    This was unpopular, because it’s a dumb idea. Joe Biden was called a racist for voting against it. This is why nobody takes that word seriously. It’s not worth arguing about though, semantic arguments are pretty boring. But as long as people keep calling everything racist, an unproductive semantic argument is the only thing you should expect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by googe View Post
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    I find this to be the most frustrating aspect of these discussions.

    Neither kertejud2 or Antonito are arguing against Buster in good faith here. It comes across as 1/3rd arguing the point, 1/3rd trying to call him out, and 1/3rd trying to hold the line for the team and shut down someone who looks like they play for the other team. You guys are still making jabs. That is fine for a troll who isn’t accepting facts (though arguably unproductive).

    I often don’t agree with the guy but maybe try forming a counter argument or presenting some context that was overlooked and it could be a productive discussion.

    He’s not just deflecting and being an ignorant defensive white guy here. Neither was I. And obviously rage2 wasn’t. None of us actually care if we are proven wrong and the data says white people are indeed the worst. The reason I don’t care is because I already assumed that white cops and wannabe white cops are killing blacks in disproportionate numbers and I do not feel a shred of responsibility for that anyway. It’s just surprising that the numbers we have seem to be upside down as of 2019, because that’s not what everyone is chanting.

    Don’t put “just asking questions” in scare quotes. If you don’t think he’s asking in good faith, which is what that says, just save yourself the typing. He won’t listen anyway right?
    Nah. There's more than enough times that he's dragged us in deep and trollololled his way out to pretend like he doesn't. I just like to point this out and every once in a while someone will acknowledge that he does seem to be trolling and it's a good days posting.

    Also I did I write a real reply to what you asked. Care to continue? Disagree? Have anything to say other than "but the numbers"?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    I'm all against racism. Name me a current institution that has a policy of racism. Name me the policy. Feed it to me like a baby. I'll march with you to that institution and we'll confront it together.
    Quote Originally Posted by ercchry View Post
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    Current is tough... ALEC lost a lot of their corporate partners, but the laws they lobbied for in the past are still in place. Sure it’s not directly blatantly racist laws... like segregation, but you know... same end results. Hell, they have a former Nixon representative on record as to why the war on drugs was done the way it was.

    I guess you can look at this stuff as “unintentional consequences” though if you want. ie crack vs coke minimum sentencing, but yeah, the results are obvious at this point and what has been done to undo those consequences?
    Beautiful. Yeah lets go with this one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vengie View Post
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    Damn, Candace Owens goes off on Facebook.

    https://www.facebook.com/realCandace...wOTA2Mjk3Mzkx/
    I think you meant to say "Candace Owens advertises her new book in a way that's sure to get attention"

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    Quote Originally Posted by ercchry View Post
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    Current is tough... ALEC lost a lot of their corporate partners, but the laws they lobbied for in the past are still in place. Sure it’s not directly blatantly racist laws... like segregation, but you know... same end results. Hell, they have a former Nixon representative on record as to why the war on drugs was done the way it was.

    I guess you can look at this stuff as “unintentional consequences” though if you want. ie crack vs coke minimum sentencing, but yeah, the results are obvious at this point and what has been done to undo those consequences?
    Didn't ALEC get in trouble for supporting voter id rights, anti-BDS legislation, and a version of Kenney's Bill1? I'm not familiar with all of their other legislation, but I recall those as being key points for progressives to label ALEC as "white supremacists".

    Now, I'm all for a lively debate on policy, but I'm not sure that coming down on one side of voter verification and critical infrastructure bills makes you a racist. The anti-BDS stuff is interesting because the BDS itself is pretty much anti-semitic. Interesting example, but certainly a stretch to call it institutional racism (at least from the examples I recall).

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    Quote Originally Posted by vengie View Post
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    Damn, Candace Owens goes off on Facebook.

    https://www.facebook.com/realCandace...wOTA2Mjk3Mzkx/

    DAMN!

    So yeah this is even more of a sham that I was already thinking. I had not heard of her before, but I see that she is a Trump supporter, so I’m sure it will be dismissed on partisan lines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by googe View Post
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    DAMN!

    So yeah this is even more of a sham that I was already thinking. I had not heard of her before, but I see that she is a Trump supporter, so I’m sure it will be dismissed on partisan lines.
    I'm only 2:30 in, but apparently she's never heard of Canada's First Nations.

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    I don't want get into any argument, statistical data, or an independent analysis whether racism is institutionalized in our system or not. But a simply fact that I learnt yesterday and found interesting was: in Edmonton, Black people are 3.5 times more likely to be street checked by the police than White people and Aboriginal women are 6.5 times more likely. This is what they said in the 6PM local Edmonton news.

    Tried finding a link to that exact news but found this article from a couple of years ago which is highly relevant:

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...ding-1.4178843

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    Quote Originally Posted by googe View Post
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    for it to be racist, yes. For it to have racial bias, I think that’s getting closer.

    Seattle used to have redlining. They literally red lines on a map that black people were allowed to live in. This is a racist policy.
    And when such policies were stopped, some were replaced with broader policies to achieve a similar goal: find the stats of predominantly black neighborhoods, and then set metrics higher than that for things like publicly-assisted loans and tax credits and funding programs (this helped prompt 'white flight' where white people could get mortgages much easier to move away. It didn't target any race...at least not officially. So it couldn't be racist, right?).

    A much more recent one is voter ID laws: not 'a policy of racism', but also definitely a racist policy when you break it down.

    When 'racism became illegal' you could have an acceptable amount of collateral damage to pass off calls of inherent inequality in the system as just whining or playing the victim or a lack of personal responsibility since 'everybody is part of the same policy'. It also means that people can 'get out' and will always be held up as proof that racism no longer exists.
    So when you get:

    Today, Seattle is expensive. People with money send their kids to expensive private schools. People in lower income suburbs can’t afford this, and their tax dollars are comparatively smaller, and their schools get less funding. Those schools are not as good, so attending them provides fewer opportunities. This is not racism. There is a disadvantage that can be correlated with race, yes. There are a dozen other races it’s affecting too, including white trailer park kids.
    Wouldn't the solution be to fund schools equally, rather than continue the system that limits social and economic mobility? Such a system only helps the feedback loop of keeping people and communities where they were. The problem with 'inner city schools' can go back to policies from the 50s and 60s like I mentioned above, holding people behind because they were held behind at the start. So you also have to ask, what has been done to help rectify the years/decades/centuries of codified racism and inequality that lay at the heart of many of these 'correlated disadvantages'? So if the policy is to keep things the same as before, and before was built off of racist policies, that's part of the basis of systemic racism. There are misguided attempts like you mention, but they're typically tried when the appetite for the more obvious changes just won't allow it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shakalaka View Post
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    I don't want get into any argument, statistical data, or an independent analysis whether racism is institutionalized in our system or not. But a simply fact that I learnt yesterday and found interesting was: in Edmonton, Black people are 3.5 times more likely to be street checked by the police than White people and Aboriginal women are 6.5 times more likely. This is what they said in the 6PM local Edmonton news.

    Tried finding a link to that exact news but found this article from a couple of years ago which is highly relevant:

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...ding-1.4178843
    Are black people 3.5 times more likely and FN women 6.5 times more likely to commit crimes than white people? Do the crime statistics in Edmonton match the extra scrutiny a certain demographic gets?

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    Voter ID laws are interesting. They are designed to solve a problem that isn't really that much of a problem (voter fraud by impersonation).

    Second, they aren't very effective at much of anything if they are being used as a political tool. Evidence seems to fly all over the place, but it is certainly not a consensus that they are de facto racist policies.

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs...65912913514854

    http://files.www.chismstrategies.com...evy__Green.pdf

    There are studies which claim the opposite of course.

    Even so, all of these arguments including ones which are based on outcomes like surveying for tax credits, etc based on demographics are weak evidence at best. They are using outcomes to establish correlations which are then used to infer causation (which conveniently fits the op-ed). This is the weakest form of evidence and conclusion.

    If you want to claim institutional racism, you have have to actually establish it with facts and evidence. You would think if the problem is as bad as claimed, then this would be a trivial task. Instead we get op-eds.

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    Do you think this will go away a bit if we get sports back on? You know we will be too busy watching NBA/NFL/MLB etc.
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    Or the max boost portfolio lol xqq/hmmj/arkk/xgro/strathmore/Chinese food lol
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    This is diversification in a nut shell. Equity, Fixed Income, Tech, Stoner, Real Estate, and Steady Income.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jutes View Post
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    Are black people 3.5 times more likely and FN women 6.5 times more likely to commit crimes than white people? Do the crime statistics in Edmonton match the extra scrutiny a certain demographic gets?
    Not sure. But - just cause a certain class of people are 'likely' to commit more crime, I don't think that justifies being profiled. Reminds me of Minority Report where the cops arrest people before the crimes are even committed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shakalaka View Post
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    Not sure. But - just cause a certain class of people are 'likely' to commit more crime, I don't think that justifies being profiled. Reminds me of Minority Report where the cops arrest people before the crimes are even committed.
    Could also be that police frequent areas that have more reported crime, said areas could be lower income, lower income areas could be less white and therefore the action is amplified. Hypothetical as I didn’t dig into the report but twisting stats to a narrative without highlighting what other data went into the analysis is pretty standard practice for news stories. Rage did a good job of posting a data source that allows you to work with the data to get more understanding of what standards impact the end result. Shame you can’t slice the data with income level, I’d speculate that is the biggest tell.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shakalaka View Post
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    Not sure. But - just cause a certain class of people are 'likely' to commit more crime, I don't think that justifies being profiled. Reminds me of Minority Report where the cops arrest people before the crimes are even committed.
    Racial profiling is pretty much the closest we come to official racist policy, as far as I can tell. I think it should be abolished. Obama re-upped all of the racial profiling policies for DHS because they basically told him (correctly) that immigration policy would basically be unenforceable without racial profiling. Take from that what you will.

    But racial profiling is basically the same logic as affirmative action, so it's difficult to make a case for one, but not the other. In this sense both conservatices and liberals tend to be hypocrites.

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    Quote Originally Posted by finboy View Post
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    Could also be that police frequent areas that have more reported crime, said areas could be lower income, lower income areas could be less white and therefore the action is amplified. Hypothetical as I didn’t dig into the report but twisting stats to a narrative without highlighting what other data went into the analysis is pretty standard practice for news stories. Rage did a good job of posting a data source that allows you to work with the data to get more understanding of what standards impact the end result. Shame you can’t slice the data with income level, I’d speculate that is the biggest tell.
    That's kinda my understanding from following Black Conservatives. Police needs to go in and clean it up but because of the dis-trust of the Police we just end up a vicious circle.
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    Or the max boost portfolio lol xqq/hmmj/arkk/xgro/strathmore/Chinese food lol
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Rural_Juror View Post
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    This is diversification in a nut shell. Equity, Fixed Income, Tech, Stoner, Real Estate, and Steady Income.

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    Quote Originally Posted by max_boost View Post
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    Only way to get rid of racism. Let's all mix it together lol

    I'm doing my part by only sleeping with white girls.
    Doesn't help since you have to pay for it and wear a condom.
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    Quote Originally Posted by max_boost View Post
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    Do you think this will go away a bit if we get sports back on? You know we will be too busy watching NBA/NFL/MLB etc.
    It would be fine until one black guy takes a knee during an anthem and then it all goes to shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by finboy View Post
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    Could also be that police frequent areas that have more reported crime, said areas could be lower income, lower income areas could be less white and therefore the action is amplified. Hypothetical as I didn’t dig into the report but twisting stats to a narrative without highlighting what other data went into the analysis is pretty standard practice for news stories. Rage did a good job of posting a data source that allows you to work with the data to get more understanding of what standards impact the end result. Shame you can’t slice the data with income level, I’d speculate that is the biggest tell.
    It can also be that the practical implementation of policies disproportionately effects the most vulnerable, which are often minorities.

    Take civil asset forfeiture laws in the US (which I think I've railed against before on here). In theory, it makes sense: anything bought by a criminal with their ill gotten gains should be confiscated. But when that money can then go back to funding the same department, it becomes a nasty loop that incentivized predatory behaviour.

    In a report by two South Carolina newspapers, they found that over $17M in assets were seized between 2014 and 2014 in over 3,200 incidents. 20% of them never get charge and the burden of proof is on the property owner to prove that the property was purchased legally.

    In the case of South Carolina, where black men make up 13% of the state's population, they account for 65% of all civil asset forfeiture cases - often in cash amounts less than $1,000.

    So even if you want to argue that institutionalized racism isn't a thing, it's hard to ignore that there is an inherent systemic bias centred on race that incentivizes predatory policing behaviour that affects people of colour more than white people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sexualbanana View Post
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    Doesn't help since you have to pay for it and wear a condom.
    Which one of your many lady friends single? Gimme their insta and I’ll send some DMs seeing your aren’t doing anything with them
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    Or the max boost portfolio lol xqq/hmmj/arkk/xgro/strathmore/Chinese food lol
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    This is diversification in a nut shell. Equity, Fixed Income, Tech, Stoner, Real Estate, and Steady Income.

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