Black Lives Matter discussion

[Masked Bandit]

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It is that bad, and it's far deeper than JUST the cops.

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I think we can all agree that the US is a messed up place in general lol.

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Very sad. Rip.



I would say it’s that bad, policing is just on a different level in the USA. I’m white and I’ve had my share of run ins with the police and time in county pen down in Colorado. They just seem to need to handle everything with next level authority and force. No common sense that prevails.

So the other side of this, what is the general behaviour of people towards the police in the USA? I would say on the whole in Canada the police are treated with respect and for the most part interactions are not confrontational. I can't imagine what it would take for me to start shit-talking a cop but maybe that's because I believe I'll be treated respectfully right out of the gate. Do the cops down there just get a whole lot more shit from their "customers" right off the bat? Are they sincerely threatened more frequently than our police are up here? Cuz more gunzzzzz yo?

[max_boost]

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It is that bad, and it's far deeper than JUST the cops.

Is it certain areas?

[BavarianBeast]

In my experience people are still generally respectful towards the police. It just seems inevitable that you will have interactions with them growing up. By the time I was of legal drinking age in university in Colorado, I would say about 90% of my friends including myself had MIP’s (minor in possession) from just attending house parties in school between the ages of 18-20 and having cops show up at the door to charge everyone underage.

Some of the other Stupid shit I was arrested for including moving a pylon 10 feet after a football game to jokingly poke my friend (theft), shortcutting through a front yard to get home from school one day (trespassing) amongst a few others
. I mean I wasn’t an angel, but that shit shouldn’t wind you up arrested and charged imo. At least I know it wouldn’t be the case in Canada.

[max_boost]

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It is that bad, and it's far deeper than JUST the cops.

Is it certain areas or all of it?

10x the population so 10x the problems.

[shakalaka]

And I don't think all cops are bad by any means. I have family in CPS and RCMP and they are all nice people. I have friends that are officers and nice people. I've even represented EPS officers on certain nature of allegations and as a whole they don't carry ill will or ulterior motives. It's just few bad apples that ruin it for everyone else.

Similarly, lot of douche civilians too that push their luck and provoke officers. But that's where training should kick in for the officers that tells them how to act responsibly under the circumstances. I may tussle with officers for a living on the stand, but if I am ever pulled over, you better believe I am as respectful as can be. But that's just me in general not just with cops but in life in general. So I do see how some people 'ask for it', but officers are taught restraint for a reason and some take the power and authority too much to their head.

We grew up being taught, 'give respect to get respect' and that goes both ways.

[JRSC00LUDE]

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Is it certain areas or all of it?

10x the population so 10x the problems.

It isn't the whole Country, just like it isn't all the cops, just like not everyone is racist but the overall climate down there is a lot worse. Getting to know some people down there over the years I understand more now why the "fuck the police" mentality exists among certain demographics.

I have changed my position on the rioting over the last year or two. Peaceful demonstration is always the preferred way but sometimes violence is the only way to be heard.

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And I don't think all cops are bad by any means. I have family in CPS and RCMP and they are all nice people. I have friends that are officers and nice people. I've even represented EPS officers on certain nature of allegations and as a whole they don't carry ill will or ulterior motives. It's just few bad apples that ruin it for everyone else.

Similarly, lot of douche civilians too that push their luck and provoke officers. But that's where training should kick in for the officers that tells them how to act responsibly under the circumstances. I may tussle with officers for a living on the stand, but if I am ever pulled over, you better believe I am as respectful as can be. But that's just me in general not just with cops but in life in general. So I do see how some people 'ask for it', but officers are taught restraint for a reason and some take the power and authority too much to their head.

We grew up being taught, 'give respect to get respect' and that goes both ways.

That's well said. I don't hate the police and I don't think every cop is bad, but I do hate portions of the overall system the police represent and I do hate bad cops.

[shakalaka]

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It isn't the whole Country, just like it isn't all the cops, just like not everyone is racist but the overall climate down there is a lot worse. Getting to know some people down there over the years I understand more now why the "fuck the police" mentality exists among certain demographics.

I have changed my position on the rioting over the last year or two. Peaceful demonstration is always the preferred way but sometimes violence is the only way to be heard.




That's well said. I don't hate the police and I don't think every cop is bad, but I do hate portions of the overall system the police represent and I do hate bad cops.

Yup. Totally agree. Rioting/looting is NOT the way to get your point across. If anything, I think it defeats the entire purpose. But people are stupid, angry and greedy and that's why we are seeing what's happening. Somewhere in there the whole point of it being for George Floyd is going to get lost and that's just way too damn sad I feel. Peaceful protests may be slow in bringing change, but they generally end up being more successful. Gandhi got the entire country freedom by doing those. It's just impossible to know what will work and what won't...but when people start robbing businesses - you've gone way too far.

PS: Still can't rep you, ES or Buster and it still keeps asking me to spread that shit around first.

[rx7boi]

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Is shit really this bad on the regular down in the states? Are cops there barely more than mall security guards who just like flexing their power? Or is it just the typical "few bad apples" and now because we have video everywhere this stuff gets captured?

It is pretty bad. Black folks having the short end of the stick is a understatement of unfathomable proportions.

IMO money and power are the two things that amplify who you are as a person but when you combine it with how law enforcement training is and the overall culture of the United States, it creates an exceptionally unique place where these things happen on the regular.

[jabjab]

Many years ago when I was in university I saw some cops kicking and telling a homeless man to get up. He was intoxicated or high on drugs or something. I intervened and told the cops that they should not be kicking this man but instead see if he needs help. They told me to "shut the fuck up and mind my business" They said they can arrest me for obstruction of justice and I replied back "how so, there is no justice in this situation, you're kicking this homeless guy in the legs instead of seeing if he needs help". Cop got made proceeded to arrest me by pushing me to the ground face first and charged me. They did put their knee in the back of my head. The cop was easily 200 plus pounds and I was a 120 lb guy. This happens in Calgary and i'm a visible minority .

[revelations]

America has some very bad police systems in many states. The police down there are not always picked and selected with any reasonable care - unlike in Canada.

The standards here are much higher and the police have a lot less 'power' than they do in the various States in comparison.

Also, the incident system of reporting police conduct in the States is no where near as comprehensive as it is up here.

Having said that - looting and general mayhem as a result of (no doubt an overreaction to a bad persons' conduct) is completely retarded. Destroying your OWN city because of this, is idiotic.

[shakalaka]

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Many years ago when I was in university I saw some cops kicking and telling a homeless man to get up. He was intoxicated or high on drugs or something. I intervened and told the cops that they should not be kicking this man but instead see if he needs help. They told me to "shut the fuck up and mind my business" They said they can arrest me for obstruction of justice and I replied back "how so, there is no justice in this situation, you're kicking this homeless guy in the legs instead of seeing if he needs help". Cop got made proceeded to arrest me by pushing me to the ground face first and charged me. They did put their knee in the back of my head. The cop was easily 200 plus pounds and I was a 120 lb guy. This happens in Calgary and i'm a visible minority .

Did the charge get dropped eventually? You should have sued the police.

[revelations]

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Many years ago when I was in university I saw some cops kicking and telling a homeless man to get up. He was intoxicated or high on drugs or something. I intervened and told the cops that they should not be kicking this man but instead see if he needs help. They told me to "shut the fuck up and mind my business" They said they can arrest me for obstruction of justice and I replied back "how so, there is no justice in this situation, you're kicking this homeless guy in the legs instead of seeing if he needs help". Cop got made proceeded to arrest me by pushing me to the ground face first and charged me. They did put their knee in the back of my head. The cop was easily 200 plus pounds and I was a 120 lb guy. This happens in Calgary and i'm a visible minority .

If they were kicking (as in "HEY GET UP") the guy in the legs, thats not really a big deal - but if they were kicking them in the head, or were excessively abusing this person sure - take a video and submit it to the complaints dept. or go public. Its the same reasons as why you dont get into an argument on the side of the highway with a member. All you end up with is more tickets for other things - or a charge that you might have not gotten in the first place had you shut up and just gone to court. You will always lose.

Never ever intervene in this as you will always lose. Your skin colour has FUCK ALL to do with the scenario. Many CPS members are also minorities.

Also these crack heads are completely unpredictable and you can make a bad situation worse for you and the members. The perp on the ground could have instantly flipped on , lost their shit and attacked you the same for 'helping them'.

You dont know the history of the event, you dont know the crackhead and you dont know that most crack heads dont care or want help.

[JRSC00LUDE]

https://www.vox.com/2020/5/27/212718...kdown-protests

Pretty decent read on the general climate of the US, I'm not really familiar with the source here but it doesn't appear to be overly biased and seems to be a pretty good summary.

[jabjab]

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Did the charge get dropped eventually? You should have sued the police.

Charges were easily dropped when I went to a lawyer.

[jabjab]

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If they were kicking (as in "HEY GET UP") the guy in the legs, thats not really a big deal - but if they were kicking them in the head, or were excessively abusing this person sure - take a video and submit it to the complaints dept. or go public. Its the same reasons as why you dont get into an argument on the side of the highway with a member. All you end up with is more tickets for other things - or a charge that you might have not gotten in the first place had you shut up and just gone to court. You will always lose.

Never ever intervene in this as you will always lose. Your skin colour has FUCK ALL to do with the scenario. Many CPS members are also minorities.

Also these crack heads are completely unpredictable and you can make a bad situation worse for you and the members. The perp on the ground could have instantly flipped on , lost their shit and attacked you the same for 'helping them'.

You dont know the history of the event, you dont know the crackhead and you dont know that most crack heads dont care or want help.

Lesson learned for sure but in the case of George Floyd there should be something to allow a citizen to help save a dying man. My situation is different and its easy to chalk up as "just some crack head" which we don't know if he was on crack but what but he was definitely not able to understand the cops instructions. I watched for a few minutes and I don't believe kicking someone in the legs telling him to get up isn't going to help him get up.

[revelations]

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Lesson learned for sure but in the case of George Floyd there should be something to allow a citizen to help save a dying man. My situation is different and its easy to chalk up as "just some crack head" which we don't know if he was on crack but what but he was definitely not able to understand the cops instructions. I watched for a few minutes and I don't believe kicking someone in the legs telling him to get up isn't going to help him get up.

The problem is, you arent qualified to make that decision about a 'dying person' in the hands of the police in Canada - based solely on what you see and hear (unless they are kicking someone in the head for eg. or obvious excess use of force by multiple members, wailing on someone already prone on the ground)

Perps' default behaviour is to whine all the fucking time to the cops about being mistreated - AFTER they've already fought with the cops and are being held down on the ground - uncomfortably in many cases - but they are not going to die. These shitheads WANT attention for every little issue and will even injure themselves intentionally while in custody.

If you think the police in Canada are being abusive, video that shit and report it. Most cops in Canada, when they see people standing around videoing their actions - stop to think about the consequences.

That happened in a case here in Calgary a few years back where a drug dealer was being foot chased (Mcleod and Glenmore intersection) and the cops started to wail on this guy already on the ground/prone, but someone was videoing the event and the cops, once told this, stopped immediately.

The members did get in a lot of shit though as the clip went viral - cant recall the end result.

[Rat Fink]

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[Skrilla]

Isn't this like the third incident of this magnitude in the past few weeks? Between this, the man who was gunned down jogging (sorry forgot his name) and the woman who was killed by plain clothes cops who had the wrong house, do you think this plays a part of the severity of the riots? Between all the other shit going on in the world this is so depressing to hear about, really makes you rage watching it. I seen a video where they had an entire squad of cops guarding the cops house who killed George Floyd. Crazy shit

[AndyL]

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...-you-spot-them

Honestly we've hit that point you can't believe half of even what you see.

Want to inflame the race war? This is how you do that..

Not saying that's the case here, no way for me to know... But we keep talking about foreign interference - it's not like the Russian and chinese don't have access to deepfake software.

Meanwhile my faith in police (even in Canada) is at an all time low. And they just continue to prove themselves even worse every few months.

[Misterman]

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You're a lawyer and you can't believe they haven't been charged? Where is your common sense? You do realize that investigations have to take place for stuff like this right?

People who have committed crimes even require an investigation to take place before a criminal charge can be laid... C'mon man use some brain matter here and not emotion.

If people who have committed crimes get their due process, why can't police officers?

No that's incorrect. They lay charges all the time with less evidence than what they already have on this cop. Then they go looking for evidence afterwards, or leave up to the courts to deal with.

It's also pretty normal to terminate an employee for bad press and being charged with a crime, way before the employee ever has their day in court to fight their charges.