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Thread: 2021 Acura TLX

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xtrema View Post
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    CEO admits as much, quality issue hitting 2-3% operating margin.
    https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...ts/4389232002/
    Good read, thanks.

    I want me some Honda from the 90s again. Hyundai is the ticket there.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age."

    -H.P. Lovecraft

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    Nice Accord?
    ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu3000gt View Post
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    Do you have an objective data source for that or is it just your personal opinion? I haven't seen or read anything about that and we all know JD power is a sham.
    JD power isn't a sham. That's internet falsehood from car fanboys that can't accept their beloved brand isn't reliable. Consumer Reports ratings mirror JD power as they both rate Honda average or below average in reliability relative to the rest of the industry. You can also see Acura fared even worse.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...es/2578463001/

    https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...dability-study

    Most vehicles today are far more reliable than they were decades ago so it doesn't mean Honda's are unreliable and more that the rest of the industry has caught up and reliability is no longer a Honda selling point. It's a good sign though that Honda is acknowledging their issues and I'm sure it's something they will improve on in the coming years.

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    The problem with JD, unless something has changed, is that it doesn't take into account severity of issues, it includes things like people not knowing how to use their infotainment system as reliability issues, and it gets its data from owners which are obviously not objective. They basically collect a whole bunch of unreliable/biased data and then charge companies to use their 'awards' and see said data. Not only do they pay people to fill out their surveys, but they have every incentive to sell their 'award' to the highest bidder. They also disqualify overly negative reviews by telling those people they didn't meet the demographic, because companies won't pay for their awards if they aren't positive. If your ratings are above average, they allow it. It's a similar business model to the BBB.

    Personally I think it's going to be difficult for Hondas to be as reliable as they were in the past now that half their lineup has turbos.
    Last edited by Mitsu3000gt; 09-02-2020 at 01:14 PM.

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    Yeah but if the model doesn't change it still kinda valid. JD Power IDS is why now there's a training session when you pick up a new car. Making sure the buyer understand all the tech and can pair their phone.

    If you look at JD Power VDS of last 5 years, Honda went from 114 per car to 134 per car while the industry as a whole improves from 147 to 134.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xtrema View Post
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    Yeah but if the model doesn't change it still kinda valid. JD Power IDS is why now there's a training session when you pick up a new car. Making sure the buyer understand all the tech and can pair their phone.

    If you look at JD Power VDS of last 5 years, Honda went from 114 per car to 134 per car while the industry as a whole improves from 147 to 134.
    The model is what makes it useless. Car companies literally pay them for the awards, and they further filter/control the ratings that they pay random people to give - it's about as big of a conflict of interest as it gets. As far as I know there is no third party keeping them honest either.

    The only reason it exists is to give uneducated buyers something to get excited about if they know literally nothing else about the vehicle. It's strictly a marketing tool - manufactures wouldn't care about it otherwise.

    Unless they are getting the data from various manufacturer warranty centers, categorized by type or severity, it's useless. Even that would present it's own challenges unless it could somehow be done by a third party to avoid manufacturers falsifying data. Surveying biased customers who the bulk of which probably haven't even read the manual regarding issues they've had is worthless IMO. Grandma having trouble getting Apple Car Play to work is not differentiated from another customer with a blown engine - and who knows if it was user error or an actual problem.

    I'm all for a service that accurately compares reliability data, but JD power is not at all objective.

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    This 3L turbo a completely new engine or was it used in other derivatives elsewhere? I'd be hesitant on picking up the first model year even though you may get away with it being a Honda. In comparison the 3.7L in my 2010 TL had zero issues at 200k and still pulled strong, where others had problems with oil consumption, coolant loss, lifter tick etc. Guess its a roll of the dice. The MDX Type-S will probably fit the bill for a fun family hauler, can't see myself having an AWD sedan like that anymore. If I want a toy to drive on a semi-daily basis it will be RWD V8, even with winter tires. IMO the TLX fits perfectly as a DD and only car in the family, but I guess situations are different.

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    3.0TT is a brand new engine.

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    I thought the Type-S is being delayed though, so the model you want won't be available for quite some time...the non Type-S is going to be boring as fuck to drive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu3000gt View Post
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    The model is what makes it useless. Car companies literally pay them for the awards, and they further filter/control the ratings that they pay random people to give - it's about as big of a conflict of interest as it gets. As far as I know there is no third party keeping them honest either.

    The only reason it exists is to give uneducated buyers something to get excited about if they know literally nothing else about the vehicle. It's strictly a marketing tool - manufactures wouldn't care about it otherwise.

    Unless they are getting the data from various manufacturer warranty centers, categorized by type or severity, it's useless. Even that would present it's own challenges unless it could somehow be done by a third party to avoid manufacturers falsifying data. Surveying biased customers who the bulk of which probably haven't even read the manual regarding issues they've had is worthless IMO. Grandma having trouble getting Apple Car Play to work is not differentiated from another customer with a blown engine - and who knows if it was user error or an actual problem.

    I'm all for a service that accurately compares reliability data, but JD power is not at all objective.
    I'm going to turn things around and ask you where you have any proof of automakers paying for awards. They pay JD Power for research but that's it. JD Power has been good for the industry;

    https://jalopnik.com/everything-you-...uto%20industry.

    There's a particularly interesting part where he actually predicted GM's 90's slide and they laughed him off only for him to get the last laugh. At least I'm posting links to back up my statements while you are kind of passing off internet hearsay as fact.
    Last edited by heavyD; 09-03-2020 at 07:19 AM.

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    Maybe he's talking about motor trend, which IS a completly paid advertising thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    You realize you are talking to the guy who made his own furniture out of salad bowls right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by npham View Post
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    I thought the Type-S is being delayed though, so the model you want won't be available for quite some time...the non Type-S is going to be boring as fuck to drive.
    Was at an Acura dealer last week and the salesbro said the type s was gonna be early to mid next year (he said what month, I forget though).

  13. #53
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    its suppose to be in the spring of next year

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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
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    I'm going to turn things around and ask you where you have any proof of automakers paying for awards. They pay JD Power for research but that's it. JD Power has been good for the industry;

    https://jalopnik.com/everything-you-...uto%20industry.

    There's a particularly interesting part where he actually predicted GM's 90's slide and they laughed him off only for him to get the last laugh. At least I'm posting links to back up my statements while you are kind of passing off internet hearsay as fact.
    JD power looks at their "data", sees that "oh, Toyota is #1 in reliability this year", and they then approach Toyota and say if you pay us X dollars, you can use our award in your advertisements and see our data. That is literally how it works, it's not a secret. There are lots of companies that do the exact thing in various other industries as well (digital camera awards, home theater product awards, etc.), it's nothing new. It's a valid marketing tool but that's where it ends.

    How is one internet article more reliable than the next? There are people on forums who work/worked for JD power, and people who work for the manufacturers that have been approached by them. It's not a secret how they operate and it's a common business model. They wouldn't have a revenue source if they didn't charge people to use their awards.

    Even if you choose not to believe that's what they do, it's impossible to argue that the way they collect their data is objective.


    https://www.consumerreports.org/cons...e-in-auto-ads/

    And of course there is J.D. Power & Associates, who reportedly charge hundreds of thousands of dollars to car makers just for access to their survey results and then charge another big-time fee for the right to mention their awards in ads. Additionally, they provide a separate, equally pricey service where they help car companies make improvements that should result in higher ratings.
    From another article, echoing exactly what I was saying above:

    In recent years, J.D. Power’s IQS has come under a lot of scrutiny from publications like Car and Driver and Extreme Tech for what it classifies as a problem and how it uses consumer surveys to rank vehicles. The survey records “problems,” but this could mean an actual problem with the function of the car, or a problem a driver has personally with a feature in the car. For example, a faulty door lock and a frustration with voice command would be equally weighted as “problems,” even if the voice command is working exactly as it’s supposed to. In this sense, J.D. Power’s IQS is not reflective of quality, like the name implies, as much as consumer satisfaction.

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    And the equal weighting of actual problems and personal issues is what is going to hurt Acura these last few years. The new True Touch Interface, lack of Apple carplay in the infotainment for a while and differing screen layouts all come to mind as complaints that are know before signing, but get counted as issues when someone complains about them.
    See Crank. See Crank Walk. Walk Crank Walk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FraserB View Post
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    And the equal weighting of actual problems and personal issues is what is going to hurt Acura these last few years. The new True Touch Interface, lack of Apple carplay in the infotainment for a while and differing screen layouts all come to mind as complaints that are know before signing, but get counted as issues when someone complains about them.
    If I had to guess, probably 80-90% of people don't even bother to read the manual of a new car they buy. I can only imagine how many people have a hard time figuring out the latest infotainment systems, and think something must be broken when they can't figure it out in 5 seconds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FraserB View Post
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    And the equal weighting of actual problems and personal issues is what is going to hurt Acura these last few years. The new True Touch Interface, lack of Apple carplay in the infotainment for a while and differing screen layouts all come to mind as complaints that are know before signing, but get counted as issues when someone complains about them.
    That's a little overblown as Toyota and Lexus still has high reliability ratings from both CR and JD power when they have amongst the worst infotainment systems in the industry. The truth is that Honda has had a lot of issues with the 1.5L engine and some of their automatic transmissions. Trying to pass their issues off as infotainment issues is simply incorrect.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...y-brand-guide/

    The 2021 Acura TLX is likely to be no more reliable than a comparable German vehicle and possibly even less reliable. This is the reality of where Honda is right now relative to the rest of the industry.
    Last edited by heavyD; 09-03-2020 at 12:16 PM.

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    Didn’t see this posted yet but it looks like Acura is going upmarket on pricing. Starting price is $4500 higher than previous gen.

    https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...tos-specs-info

    Value proposition is shrinking?

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    Seems like a bad idea considering all the incentives needed to move the current gen TLX’s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richardchan2002 View Post
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    Didn’t see this posted yet but it looks like Acura is going upmarket on pricing. Starting price is $4500 higher than previous gen.

    https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...tos-specs-info

    Value proposition is shrinking?
    Acura trying to compete with BMW and Mercedes now?

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