Alberta to hold referendum on equalization in 2021; Kenny's Fair Deal

[Buster]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It's just this, obvious pandering to angry Albertans and nothing else. I'm under no illusions that pandering to the angriest demographic could ever lead to anything good.

It's regularly effective for the angry people.

[EM2FTL]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It’s commitment 3/5 lol

Hahaha, “stand up for Alberta” 😭

[kertejud2]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Not necessary smaller pool to pull from. Not every cop in CPS is Calgarian.

I do think if we spend ~$350M to RCMP for around 1M people. APP would cost roughly the same or more.

It's definitely a smaller pool and you spend money to recruit from outside of it. CPS spent tens of thousands a year sending recruiters to the UK to attract police to move over. CPS and EPS offer $20K more to recruit RCMP officers (as well as newer equipment, which also comes with a cost).

Even the wildly biased panel knows it will cost at a minimum the same, so it's safe to say it will definitely cost more. Just the nature of the system. Higher admin costs (since the feds pay for the top level stuff). Higher capital costs. Needing to outcompete other jurisdictions for people (provincial police forces cost more than the RCMP who are cheap). An APP will have to compete for people with CPS and EPS to get the better people. It's paying more for the same level of service, hopefully.

What's with all the supposed fiscal hawks wanting the province to pay for things the federal government is already paying for?

As for @killramos , he does have family being victim of rural crime, so it's understanable.

So does he blame the RCMP for not being good enough, or blame the province for reducing rural police funding while thinking "it's not about the cost?" (It's all about the cost).

[dirtsniffer]

It's going to be very difficult to justify creating agencies that already exist federally. Something about chopping off your nose to spite your face.

[Xtrema]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It's going to be very difficult to justify creating agencies that already exist federally. Something about chopping off your nose to spite your face.

For:
https://www.surreynowleader.com/opin...-to-its-roots/

Against:
https://www.surreynowleader.com/opin...-a-generation/



While Surrey is a city instead or rural, I think we can draw parallel and see how it plays out.

CPS+EPS works around around $305 per capita in police cost.

RCMP is policing the rural with around $142 per capita and we are paying 2/3 of it.

I severely doubt APP will be cheaper than RCMP. But if we can quantify what it buys, why not.

[Misterman]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

A screen cap of the Fair Deal panel report is my conjecture?

Your conjecture is the fact you continually post opinions based on partial information or out of context information. This is literally every single one of your posts.

- - - Updated - - -

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

So you are saying we should defund CPS and EPS because they are paid too much? A.P.P can actually ran with lower cost per capita than CPS and EPS with more area to cover?

I don't object from paying more for better service. But only people realize they are paying more and if we can verify it's better

No, definitely not what I said. Not sure what EPS or CPS has to do with anything? Plain and simple, we do not know all the variables currently to determine whether an Alberta police force would be more or less expensive overall than RCMP.

[Misterman]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

^Actually the entire platform of this gov has been about cutting red tape and doing things more efficiently to... you guessed it, SAVE MONEY!

I have to lol at the people who think an APP wouldn't engage in revenue generating activities like speed enforcement. If we had a bigger operating expense do you really think the APP would put down its radar guns and focus on rural crime as per the rhetoric?

If they understood operational costs they would. A cop can't write enough tickets to justify the costs of that cop and his equipment. That's the absurdity of traffic enforcement. If you're going to use them for revenue collection instead of enforcement, then they don't actually generate revenue at all. The government just accepts this because they think it is mandatory to have traffic enforcement division, so they figure what the hell, might as well repurpose them for revenue collection. It's a giant paradox.

[kertejud2]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Your conjecture is the fact you continually post opinions based on partial information or out of context information. This is literally every single one of your posts.

So the Fair Deal panel’s info is just opinion based on partial or out of context information?

Why should we spend the money to have a referendum on it, then?

[Misterman]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It's going to be very difficult to justify creating agencies that already exist federally. Something about chopping off your nose to spite your face.

Difficult perhaps, but necessary as the Provinces continue to become more and more polarized from each other. This is exactly why the US allows the individual states so much free reign over how they govern, because an umbrella federal approach just doesn't work for governing so many different areas with different needs and different values.

- - - Updated - - -

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

So the Fair Deal panel’s info is just opinion based on partial or out of context information?

Why should we spend the money to have a referendum on it, then?

How about just stop using Fair Deal Panel as a red herring. You insinuating that it is the only thing that matters in this discussion is your conjecture here. And now you're trying to create a false dichotomy by saying if I don't agree with you, that I don't agree with Fair Deal panel. You just embody every logical fallacy there is with your arguments. The thing is I still can't tell if you're just a troll, purposely twisting facts to support your pre conceived opinions, or just have no sense of logic at all? Maybe you are a reflection of what it is like to live inside the head of a crazy liberal. lol

[kertejud2]

I offered no opinion, no conjecture. Literally just posted a screen cap of what the panel said about costs in their report.

So if you disagree with what I put, then you disagree with the panel, because that’s literally all I posted. That’s not a false dichotomy, it’s the only conclusion that could be come to.

[Misterman]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I offered no opinion, no conjecture. Literally just posted a screen cap of what the panel said about costs in their report.

So if you disagree with what I put, then you disagree with the panel, because that’s literally all I posted. That’s not a false dichotomy, it’s the only conclusion that could be come to.

Here we go again. Ok, so you've not actually made an argument at all, but you're trying to argue? If you haven't made an argument, but you want to argue anyway, the next logical step is to reply to my argument and form a counter argument. If you want to argue about whether you made an argument or not when you posted random statistical information without context, then I guess that answers the question about whether you're a troll or not.

[kertejud2]

Random statistical information without context?

It couldn’t be less random, and couldn’t be more contextual.

In a thread about the Fair Deal Panel report, questions were raised about cost of provincial police relative to the current deal, and the information the Fair Deal Panel that produceD said report investigating the cost of a provincial police department Relative to the current deal was posted.

What about that is random and out of context?

[Misterman]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Random statistical information without context?

It couldn’t be less random, and couldn’t be more contextual.

In a thread about the Fair Deal Panel report, questions were raised about cost of provincial police relative to the current deal, and the information the Fair Deal Panel that produceD said report investigating the cost of a provincial police department Relative to the current deal was posted.

What about that is random and out of context?

It doesn't compare anything. It was the cost we currently pay for RCMP. Nothing more. How does this in any way shape or form have any consideration for how APP would be managed, what potential tax credit situation we could negotiate with Ottawa, and therefore what its costs would be? Why do things continually need to be restated for you?

[kertejud2]

Talk about random and out of context. What does a federal tax credit do for a provincially funded police force? The Province of Alberta doesn’t pay taxes, Albertans do. So the only way a tax credit works is if the province then increases taxes to counteract the savings. We still aren’t saving money, just shifting around who collects it. Based on how angry people were when the city did this when the province wanted to return money, I can’t imagine it would go over very well.

We know what the costs are of policing right now. We know that the RCMP pays lower than other police services (both compared to Edmonton and Calgary, as well as compared to other provincial police services). We know the High level admin and training facilities are covered by the feds that would need to be replaced provincially. These are things taken into consideration, and why the panel mentioned the costs would need to be replaced.

But yeah, bank on a non existent tax credit, which isn’t a number at all. It’s a pipe dream and doesn’t deserve any consideration.

[Xtrema]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

No, definitely not what I said. Not sure what EPS or CPS has to do with anything? Plain and simple, we do not know all the variables currently to determine whether an Alberta police force would be more or less expensive overall than RCMP.

Per capita, RCMP is 50% cheaper than CPS or EPS. And we are paying only paying 2/3 of it. So effectively, CPS/EPS cost 3x more than RCMP.

[Tik-Tok]

I think it's more about a police force the provincial government can control. None of these pesky election investigations.

[revelations]

The RCMP also run single member cruisers - in the middle of nowhere - all in the name of cost savings.

Many RCMP members have stopped doing night time rural vehicle stops as the risk is too high - and no backup for an hour in some cases.

[Ca_Silvia13]

IMO, i think a lot of rural Albertans would strongly support a change in RCMP/APP. The sentiment for rural Albertans is they are left on their own to protect themselves and their property. That thinking is the start of a powder keg situation.

[Disoblige]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

IMO, i think a lot of rural Albertans would strongly support a change in RCMP/APP. The sentiment for rural Albertans is they are left on their own to protect themselves and their property. That thinking is the start of a powder keg situation.

Yup, 100%. Speaking from first hand experience living in a rural community and part of a volunteer fire department. If shit went down out here, it would be worse than the response seen in Nova Scotia.

[revelations]

In rural AB - stuff almost never makes the news if the situation is dealt with correctly. If some crack head breaks into your home and you shoot them dead - there is almost zero incentive to call the RCMP as all they would do is bulldoze you with paperwork and accusations.

I have no doubt these shitheads have been put down in rural AB and no one is the wiser.

And when I say rural, I dont mean Olds - I mean places outside of the cities of Castor, Coronation etc.