Alberta to hold referendum on equalization in 2021; Kenny's Fair Deal

[Buster]

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Getting out of CPP sounds good now. Won't be in 20 years when the resource economy is totally done and there is nobody or growth funding it. And AIMCO ain't saving our asses.

Your predicting a grand return of capital back to Alberta in 20 years?

New Brunswick's new tech sector is going to take off and start funneling excess cash over to Alberta retirees?

[Thaco]

it's Kenney, read the fine print, he's definitely trying to pull a fast one.

[Misterman]

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It's pointing a gun into your own head to demand money at a teller.

A.P.P will cost more than RCMP because you have to set up a new structure from top down.

Why would this be such a massive burden for Alberta more so than for cities like Edmonton and Calgary that already did it? Seems to me like setting up a police force would be a lot like an LS engine build. There is blue prints for it all over the place, just pick one and follow it.

[Xtrema]

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Why would this be such a massive burden for Alberta more so than for cities like Edmonton and Calgary that already did it? Seems to me like setting up a police force would be a lot like an LS engine build. There is blue prints for it all over the place, just pick one and follow it.

Kurt already show the math on this and it's in line of cost of CPS and EPS budget wise which I assume spending per capita would be similar too. Except we will have to take on $112M more.

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it's Kenney, read the fine print, he's definitely trying to pull a fast one.

The question on the referendum will be "Should we have our own provincial police force and leave CPP with a 7% PST to pay for it? Yes/No"

[pheoxs]

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The Fair Deal panel knows:

Yeah but have you considered how many more administrators would be hired by the province? Thats PRIME privilege jobs for all Kenneys buddies and their families.

[revelations]

Its not so much we NEED our own force here - its just that the RCMP has SERIOUS internal issues right now - all across the board. Members quitting enmasse and unstaffed positions end up piling paper work on the remaining members.
The RCMP is on its way out (not just AB) they just cant read the writing on the wall. Decentralization is the goal. The biggest RCMP detachment in Surrey BC is also being closed and they are going with their own police.

The costs would definitely be higher with our own force as well. Its not about money saving - although there might be some amalgamation of the sheriffs into the traffic crew.

At least this means the RCMP traffic guys in ponoka wont be sitting in their LIDAR lawn chairs 'policing' the highway.

[dirtsniffer]

Link
https://open.alberta.ca/publications...-to-government

The interesting points for me in the fair deal act are:

Getting proper rep by pop instead of being continually short changed.

Adjusting equalization so that renewable resources are included in the calculation.

Im not fully up to speed, but apparently if it wasnt for some factor around resources AB should have received 2.x billion this year in equalization.

More federal jobs created in AB. I think NS has more federal employees with way fewer people. Moving parks Canada from Quebec to Calgary is a good idea.

Energy corridor from coast to coast.

Federal court of appeal should have judges from across the country

Continue to investigate the economics of a pension plan

[Misterman]

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Kurt already show the math on this and it's in line of cost of CPS and EPS budget wise which I assume spending per capita would be similar too. Except we will have to take on $112M more.

Which is just typical Kert conjecture. I have no idea how they would intend to manage it if we ventured away from RCMP. Would they need to keep the added bloat cost per capita factored into the RCMP being such a large organization? I would hope not, so it should be expected that our per capita cost will be lower. And then there is towns like Leduc that have 8 times more police staffing than required. Would the Province correct this issue which would further decrease the cost? Or how about the massively over funded traffic enforcement by RCMP in Alberta?

[kertejud2]

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Which is just typical Kert conjecture.

A screen cap of the Fair Deal panel report is my conjecture?

[Xtrema]

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Which is just typical Kert conjecture. I have no idea how they would intend to manage it if we ventured away from RCMP. Would they need to keep the added bloat cost per capita factored into the RCMP being such a large organization? I would hope not, so it should be expected that our per capita cost will be lower. And then there is towns like Leduc that have 8 times more police staffing than required. Would the Province correct this issue which would further decrease the cost? Or how about the massively over funded traffic enforcement by RCMP in Alberta?

So you are saying we should defund CPS and EPS because they are paid too much? A.P.P can actually ran with lower cost per capita than CPS and EPS with more area to cover?

I don't object from paying more for better service. But only people realize they are paying more and if we can verify it's better

[killramos]

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A screen cap of the Fair Deal panel report is my conjecture?

The recommendation in the fair deal panel report has nothing to do with costs and everything to do with us getting a garbage joke of a police service from the RCMP.

APP is about having more control over the provincial police force and direction of resources to fix issues of rural crime. Cherry on top is getting the feds out of our back yard more and more.

It’s not supposed to be cheaper, it’s supposed to be better. Rather than the typical Kert MO of More expensive and worse service like what you get out of pretty much anything the City of Calgary touches.

[kertejud2]

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The recommendation in the fair deal panel report has nothing to do with costs and everything to do with us getting a garbage joke of a police service from the RCMP.

APP is about having more control over the provincial police force and direction of resources to fix issues of rural crime. Cherry on top is getting the feds out of our back yard more and more.

ItÂ’s not supposed to be cheaper, itÂ’s supposed to be better.

How does spending more for the same service address the problem of rural crime? Or improve quality of the force? Recruitment pool is smaller. Training resources need to be developed. OPP and SdQ are jokes as well so there isn't really another model to go after.

The UCP reduced money going to rural policing and has the province in more deficit than ever, where's this extra money coming from to pay for it? No it doesn't have to be cheaper (though given the context of your post, it really seemed like you thought/were hoping it was a cost neutral scenario that maybe could tilt in the province's favor), but being able to afford things is a pretty important prerequisite in having them be good. It isn't just the increased operational cost to the province either, there's a lot of capital that would need to be spent to get things up and running that nobody is willing to pay for.

Rather than the typical Kert MO of More expensive and worse service like what you get out of pretty much anything the City of Calgary touches.

You realize this puts more pressure on municipalities, so even though the RCMP doesn't have much of a presence in Calgary, the City of Calgary (and other municipalities) would have to touch more. Particularly because this government loves downloading costs. An example being when they downloaded more costs of rural policing to rural municipalities, then told them 'tough luck' when companies weren't paying their property tax that was needed to fund the policing.

[Xtrema]

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How does spending more for the same service address the problem of rural crime? Or improve quality of the force? Recruitment pool is smaller. Training resources need to be developed. OPP and SdQ are jokes as well so there isn't really another model to go after.

The UCP reduced money going to rural policing and has the province in more deficit than ever, where's this extra money coming from to pay for it? No it doesn't have to be cheaper (though given the context of your post, it really seemed like you thought/were hoping it was a cost neutral scenario that maybe could tilt in the province's favor), but being able to afford things is a pretty important prerequisite in having them be good. It isn't just the increased operational cost to the province either, there's a lot of capital that would need to be spent to get things up and running that nobody is willing to pay for.




You realize this puts more pressure on municipalities, so even though the RCMP doesn't have much of a presence in Calgary, the City of Calgary (and other municipalities) would have to touch more. Particularly because this government loves downloading costs. An example being when they downloaded more costs of rural policing to rural municipalities, then told them 'tough luck' when companies weren't paying their property tax that was needed to fund the policing.

Not necessary smaller pool to pull from. Not every cop in CPS is Calgarian.

I do think if we spend ~$350M to RCMP for around 1M people. APP would cost roughly the same or more.

As for @killramos , he does have family being victim of rural crime, so it's understanable.

[killramos]

There is a difference between understanding the purpose of something (which kert doesnt, big hint it wasn’t about saving money) and agreeing with it.

[EM2FTL]

^Actually the entire platform of this gov has been about cutting red tape and doing things more efficiently to... you guessed it, SAVE MONEY!

I have to lol at the people who think an APP wouldn't engage in revenue generating activities like speed enforcement. If we had a bigger operating expense do you really think the APP would put down its radar guns and focus on rural crime as per the rhetoric?

[killramos]

That’s a large part of their platform yes. But saying it’s the entire platform is just being intentionally dishonest.

[EM2FTL]

I've studied the platform, and i'm still fine with saying that is their overall policy approach, but you're right - An Alberta Police Force wasn't part of it at all. No mention whatsoever.

https://albertastrongandfree.ca/wp-c...Platform-1.pdf

[killramos]

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I've studied the platform, and i'm still fine with saying that is their overall policy approach, but you're right - An Alberta Police Force wasn't part of it at all. No mention whatsoever.

https://albertastrongandfree.ca/wp-c...Platform-1.pdf

It’s commitment 3/5 lol

[Xtrema]

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I've studied the platform, and i'm still fine with saying that is their overall policy approach, but you're right - An Alberta Police Force wasn't part of it at all. No mention whatsoever.

https://albertastrongandfree.ca/wp-c...Platform-1.pdf

This whole thing is just to throw separatists a bone and like Buster said, potentially give AB some threats for future negotiation.

[01RedDX]

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