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Thread: 2021 M3/M4 get 480 and 510HP RWD Manual

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    Also: who cares how "fast" a car is nowadays. Even legit DDs nowadays get you to illegal speeds within seconds.

    Also pet peeve: I don't give a flying fuck what a car's 1/4 mile time is. "Dude, it does a 11.2 in the quarter mile." Bragging about 1/4 mile times is like bragging about your meal the night before, but describing it in terms of how much it weighed rather than how good it tasted.

    Man, I'm in a mood today.
    What does that even mean? (In bold)


    I'll also state that I'm a car guy, and I definitely care about how fast a car is. If you like performance vehicles, why wouldn't you? Or are you only interested in braking and turning, acceleration is irrelevant?

    You stated that you want to get a Ferrari FF and I'm trying to understand what about a 650hp, AWD, shooting brake, would interest a guy who doesn't care how fast a car is.

    I suppose I'm not taking into consideration that lots of guys simply want a high performance car because of the badge and the expensive price, which is fine too.
    I like neat cars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 90_Shelby View Post
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    What does that even mean? (In bold)


    I'll also state that I'm a car guy, and I definitely care about how fast a car is. If you like performance vehicles, why wouldn't you? Or are you only interested in braking and turning, acceleration is irrelevant?

    You stated that you want to get a Ferrari FF and I'm trying to understand what about a 650hp, AWD, shooting brake, would interest a guy who doesn't care how fast a car is.

    I suppose I'm not taking into consideration that lots of guys simply want a high performance car because of the badge and the expensive price, which is fine too.
    I think it’s more that the qualities that make the car fast are cool, rather than the number on the spec sheet that says how quick it runs a 1:4 mile making it cool.
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
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    guessing who I might be, psychologizing me with your non existent degree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    Bench racing is how non car people pretend to know about cars.
    LOL okay. Why even bother discussing a car like this or any performance version of a regular car? I guess the aftermarket tuning scene is for people to pretend to know about cars? If you truly don't care about 1/4 mile times you probably aren't a real car enthusiast or are butthurt that your current vehicles don't measure up.

    Maybe we need to make a subforum for the real car guys that want to hold hands, sing Kumbaya and discuss the fuel economy of economy cars, massaging seats, or brag about the badges they have acquired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
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    LOL okay. Why even bother discussing a car like this or any performance version of a regular car? I guess the aftermarket tuning scene is for people to pretend to know about cars? If you truly don't care about 1/4 mile times you probably aren't a real car enthusiast or are butthurt that your current vehicles don't measure up.

    Maybe we need to make a subforum for the real car guys that want to hold hands, sing Kumbaya and discuss the fuel economy of economy cars, massaging seats, or brag about the badges they have acquired.
    I personally think there are a lot more interesting things about cars than numbers written on the sales sheet.

    It’s not about the destination, but how you get there.
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
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    guessing who I might be, psychologizing me with your non existent degree.

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    Performance numbers are typically a direct correlation to the sensation you feel when driving. If a car has great 1/4 mile or 0-60 numbers, you feel that sensation when hitting the gas pedal and it’s significant when comparing the sensation of an awd 500hp M3 vs a Toyota Camry despite only a few seconds between the times.

    Road course or lap times are another topic as most drivers aren’t anywhere close to driving their performance car to the limits of its capabilities. I would almost argue that acceleration for the average driver is the best way to feel what their car is capable of.
    I like neat cars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 90_Shelby View Post
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    What does that even mean? (In bold)


    I'll also state that I'm a car guy, and I definitely care about how fast a car is. If you like performance vehicles, why wouldn't you? Or are you only interested in braking and turning, acceleration is irrelevant?

    You stated that you want to get a Ferrari FF and I'm trying to understand what about a 650hp, AWD, shooting brake, would interest a guy who doesn't care how fast a car is.

    I suppose I'm not taking into consideration that lots of guys simply want a high performance car because of the badge and the expensive price, which is fine too.
    Nothing wrong with a car being fast. It's just not the most interesting thing about cars nowadays.

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    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    I personally think there are a lot more interesting things about cars than numbers written on the sales sheet.

    It’s not about the destination, but how you get there.
    Sure there's the design, the interior ergonomics, ride, etc but that's something any non-enthusiast may take interest in. I just think it's a little disingenuous to consider yourself an auto enthusiast while claiming not to care about performance metrics. It doesn't have to be at the top of your list of criteria but very few people purchase a performance car without an eye on it's performance capabilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
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    Sure there's the design, the interior ergonomics, ride, etc but that's something any non-enthusiast may take interest in. I just think it's a little disingenuous to consider yourself an auto enthusiast while claiming not to care about performance metrics. It doesn't have to be at the top of your list of criteria but very few people purchase a performance car without an eye on it's performance capabilities.
    I’m saying 0-60 times are a cheap stat to lean on, one very easily gamed by manufacturers with electronic launch systems these days.

    Far from a holy grail number.

    I just don’t think listing out a table of 0-60 numbers quoted by manufacturers makes for particularly engaging comparison of cars. Everyone wants to find some silver bullet to rank everything. I think that’s an incredibly boring way to look at things.

    To each their own.
    Last edited by killramos; 07-03-2020 at 12:59 PM.
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
    Originally posted by Toma
    fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yolobimmer View Post
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    guessing who I might be, psychologizing me with your non existent degree.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    I’m saying 0-60 times are a cheap stat to lean on, one very easily gamed by manufacturers with electronic launch systems these days.

    Far from a holy grail number.

    I just don’t think listing out a table of 0-60 numbers quoted by manufacturers makes for particularly engaging comparison of cars. Everyone wants to find some silver bullet to rank everything. I think that’s an incredibly boring way to look at things.

    To each their own.
    You said "bench racing" which is general to all performance metrics and now changing the goal posts to 0-60 mph. 1/4 mile times were also discussed as that's the bigger indicator of how fast a vehicle is. Still even at that it's impressive when you see the latest 911 Turbo S pull off a 2.5 second 0-60 time as it's manufacturers are pushing physics. Regardless I agree with you that this discussion has run its course.

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    You can replace “0-60” with whatever number floats your boat: Nurburgring times, quarter mile, top speed, CO2’s/km. All the same .

    Now talk about the technologies that got them there, now that’s something interesting to talk about.
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
    Originally posted by Toma
    fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yolobimmer View Post
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    guessing who I might be, psychologizing me with your non existent degree.

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    If 0-60 matters, you buy an electric car.
    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    You realize you are talking to the guy who made his own furniture out of salad bowls right?

  12. #32
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    I for one would prefer to bench race how many features my car has which require a monthly subscription to use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vengie View Post
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    I for one would prefer to bench race how many features my car has which require a monthly subscription to use.
    Pretty sure OnStar has everyone beat in that category
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
    Originally posted by Toma
    fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yolobimmer View Post
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    guessing who I might be, psychologizing me with your non existent degree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSlow View Post
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    If 0-60 matters, you buy an electric car.
    I’d like to drive one. Despite them accelerating fast, I’m interested in the sensation with a complete lack of noise and how it compares to something like my Jeep where half the fun is the roar of the engine, whine of the blower and blap when it shifts.
    I like neat cars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    You can replace “0-60” with whatever number floats your boat: Nurburgring times, quarter mile, top speed, CO2’s/km. All the same .

    Now talk about the technologies that got them there, now that’s something interesting to talk about.
    Maybe not?


    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    Nothing new here. MSRP for my C63 was 109 or something and it didn’t even have every option.

    Tough not to jump to the M5 Comp from there ( can be had for ~140 nicely equipped ) which comes with a real engine.

    - - - Updated - - -



    This
    So only discussing technologies such as a V8 seeing 4 and 6 cylinder technologies that get you there aren't real engines? You know what's interesting? Your ability to contradict yourself.

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    Isn't bmw the only company to have wireless Carplay? Seems awesome

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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
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    So only discussing technologies such as a V8 seeing 4 and 6 cylinder technologies that get you there aren't real engines? You know what's interesting? Your ability to contradict yourself.
    I think discussing things such as merits of different engines is interesting. Yes. I think V8’s are cooler than 4 cyls. Yes.

    I think those are interesting topics of discussion. 0-60 times not so much.

    I think you need to look up contradiction in a dictionary bud.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtsniffer View Post
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    Isn't bmw the only company to have wireless Carplay? Seems awesome
    Them, also VW, Mercedes, Ford, FCA. It’s just not that widespread.
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
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    fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yolobimmer View Post
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    guessing who I might be, psychologizing me with your non existent degree.

  18. #38
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    I do not think 0-60 is the be all end all stat to determine what car to purchase, of course the desirability is wrapped into a complex array of factors. But writing off the most daily usable performance metric as useless is a swing and a miss in my opinion. Sure, looking at all the super and hyper cars and bragging how your car is .1 seconds faster 0-60 is a little useless, but when one car is blasting another by a full second to 60 that translates to real world enjoyment as you speed to the limit and then let off the accelerator.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beyond_ban View Post
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    I do not think 0-60 is the be all end all stat to determine what car to purchase, of course the desirability is wrapped into a complex array of factors. But writing off the most daily usable performance metric as useless is a swing and a miss in my opinion. Sure, looking at all the super and hyper cars and bragging how your car is .1 seconds faster 0-60 is a little useless, but when one car is blasting another by a full second to 60 that translates to real world enjoyment as you speed to the limit and then let off the accelerator.
    I'm on board with this, but quoting the 0-60 time is pretty useless, since most/all require using launch control, which you aren't going to be engaging regularly (or ever?). That's why 5-60 is a much more relevant indicator of DD fun IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjblair View Post
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    I'm on board with this, but quoting the 0-60 time is pretty useless, since most/all require using launch control, which you aren't going to be engaging regularly (or ever?). That's why 5-60 is a much more relevant indicator of DD fun IMO.
    I'm surprised how many people use launch control on their vehicles on a somewhat regular basis. Forums and facebook groups I've been on with cars that have DSG or autos with launch control are full of people that seem to do it on a regular basis. There's threads at Bimmerpost dedicated to it. It's an occasional thing for me but on most autos today are pretty efficient at launching compared to say dumping the clutch on a manual equipped AWD vehicle. Road and Track did 50 straight launches back to back on a 911 turbo and it was by their words as quick on the 30th as it was on the first. Granted not all vehicles are built to that standard but most vehicles with launch control should be able to reliably perform the task without causing major or long term damage. 5-60 is a good indicator of ability to get going from a green light for sure but outside of C&D most auto media focus on only 0-60 and 1/4 mile times so it's not as readily available of a metric. It's very notable on a vehicle such as an STI that can have a 4.6 sec 0-60 time and a 6.6 second 5-60 time.
    Last edited by heavyD; 07-03-2020 at 03:15 PM.

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