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    Default Defund the police?

    Ive been trying to stay out of all of this craziness going on because i thought it was more of a US thing but somebody wrote "defund the police" in what must be 12 ft plus letters on the maxbell bridge wall(i think thats the area, you can see it on deerfoot heading north). Do people really think taking money away is going to solve the problem? I was listening to a Joe Rogan podcast and he had Jocko(Navy seal guy) and he made a very good point, the police get minimal training at the start of their career and thats it. I was also talking to a friend and he made a very good point, with all this going on nobody is going to want to be a cop so the new gen of cops could possibly be pretty rough because police departments wont have the luxury of picking and choosing the top recruits, they will more than likely be choosing guys they wouldve normally cut......
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    our police in calgary get a ton of training before hitting the streets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestalt View Post
    Im the one with a learning disability....

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    Police Departments already don't have much discretion with hiring practices now. They are constantly trying to hire new recruits and there are very few applicants. They are pretty much taking anyone with a semi-clean record and overlooking some stuff to fill positions.

    I think that if we had some units on patrol that were specifically deployed for welfare checks and other disturbance calls where there was a police officer and some form of social worker in the car who could take "lead" in these situations might make a big difference. During that time, police could be trained better in handling situations. I back the police almost always, but even I have noticed that the police are very quick to resort to physical force at the drop of a hat instead of reacting appropriately as the situation presents itself. Perhaps if there is a social worker that can respond to these events along with a police officer as backup, things would probably get better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket1k78 View Post
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    Ive been trying to stay out of all of this craziness going on because i thought it was more of a US thing but somebody wrote "defund the police" in what must be 12 ft plus letters on the maxbell bridge wall(i think thats the area, you can see it on deerfoot heading north). Do people really think taking money away is going to solve the problem? I was listening to a Joe Rogan podcast and he had Jocko(Navy seal guy) and he made a very good point, the police get minimal training at the start of their career and thats it. I was also talking to a friend and he made a very good point, with all this going on nobody is going to want to be a cop so the new gen of cops could possibly be pretty rough because police departments wont have the luxury of picking and choosing the top recruits, they will more than likely be choosing guys they wouldve normally cut......
    Defund the police = redirect some budget toward counselors and other trained specialists for certain types of calls.

    This could be a positive change for policing. It may not be. I'm not educated enough to really know one way or the other. Maybe NY will be a model moving forward, either for success or for the shit show. Only time will tell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spikerS View Post
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    but even I have noticed that the police are very quick to resort to physical force at the drop of a hat instead of reacting appropriately as the situation presents itself.
    Do they though? Or is public perception perverted because the only situations we hear about from the media are the half a story phone videos that pop up on the news once in a while that only tell a slice of a situation? There's no way that the handful of videos that come up per year is representative of the entire activity of day to day policing.

    As for the bigger question of "defund the police" I would say that anyone that takes that stance should spend a month job shadowing an average street cop and maybe then your opinion would have some weight. Media both mainstream and social almost never "report" the full facts on any situation other than sports scores and shit man, even that is slanted from the home team's perspective...lol...so there's no way I'm going to believe that all cops are out there kicking asses on the daily just for fun.
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    So... When the DOAP team and EMS get calls on people they won't approach without police on hand... And those are these trained social worker types who are supposed to know how to do this without violence...

    The drugs and mental health end of calls isn't passive and non violent. So what are we accomplishing here?

    Oh we put more civic employees in harm's way and still had to taser them and restrain them before ems could give a sedative?

    Then the person will be out of hospital in 72 hours again and we do it again?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Masked Bandit View Post
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    Do they though? Or is public perception perverted because the only situations we hear about are the half a story phone videos that pop up on the news once in a while that only tell a slice of a situation? There's no way that the handful of videos that come up per year is representative of the entire activity of day to day policing.

    As for the bigger question of "defund the police" I would say that anyone that takes that stance should spend a month job shadowing an average street cop and maybe then your opinion would have some weight. Media both mainstream and social almost never "report" the full facts on any situation other than sports scores and shit man, even that is slanted from the home team's perspective...lol...so there's no way I'm going to believe that all cops are out there kicking asses on the daily just for fun.
    I have had numerous encounters with cops where they unnecessarily escalated the situation.

    I support cops. I also recognize that the current model is not ideal, based on my experiences and the experiences of others.

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    Can't believe they cancelled Cops the TV show. Was a great way to burn 20 minutes when I didn't want to sit down for a whole movie. Been watching that show off and on for as long as I can remember.

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    My personal belief is to increase funding to police for new techniques and training. I may be alone on this sentiment but heres why...

    Im not a police officer but I have a ton of friends that are and I have been on many ride alongs in all areas and times of this city. I think theres a big misconception for what policing actually entails. The things that they are subjected to every day of their life takes a massive toll. They go from a traffic accident where there are dead kids and go right to a call after with a guy that beat the hell out of his wife and then a call where some dude called the cops because his room mate ate his pop tarts... In no way do I think that this is a valid excuse for police brutality or illegal behavior but im sure all of us have had a shit day at work and snapped at our wife or someone because of your day at work. It happens. Taking resources away to help make these officers better trained, better supported and more assertive works against the solution in my opinion. I just think its really rich of people to criticize a profession that they have no idea about. Take a few ride alongs and see what they deal with EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. and im sure most would think otherwise about defunding them.

    Ive had good and bad experiences with LE but I still think they do a very good job and I have a great deal of understanding for what they deal with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan View Post
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    Can't believe they cancelled Cops the TV show. Was a great way to burn 20 minutes when I didn't want to sit down for a whole movie. Been watching that show off and on for as long as I can remember.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_PD

    Never watched it tho, so not sure how it's different from Cops.

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    Edmonton is defunding their police by $11M over 2 years and redirecting the money towards social/health workers to assist with police.

    EPS "self funding" is gonna have to make up that $11M aka even more speed and noise traps.
    ---

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    Quote Originally Posted by A790 View Post
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    I have had numerous encounters with cops where they unnecessarily escalated the situation.

    I support cops. I also recognize that the current model is not ideal, based on my experiences and the experiences of others.
    And you & I are the perfect example why our opinions are skewed and essentially invalid. I've also had enough interactions with cops over the years and never once have I seen them escalate beyond reason, I've always thought these people were the most patient souls on the planet because I couldn't maintain a calm demeanor through what they see. So, you and I have very different experiences which doesn't mean either of us is wrong, it's just too small of a sample size to base a decision of "defund the police" on.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by civic_stylez View Post
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    My personal belief is to increase funding to police for new techniques and training. I may be alone on this sentiment but heres why...

    Im not a police officer but I have a ton of friends that are and I have been on many ride alongs in all areas and times of this city. I think theres a big misconception for what policing actually entails. The things that they are subjected to every day of their life takes a massive toll. They go from a traffic accident where there are dead kids and go right to a call after with a guy that beat the hell out of his wife and then a call where some dude called the cops because his room mate ate his pop tarts... In no way do I think that this is a valid excuse for police brutality or illegal behavior but im sure all of us have had a shit day at work and snapped at our wife or someone because of your day at work. It happens. Taking resources away to help make these officers better trained, better supported and more assertive works against the solution in my opinion. I just think its really rich of people to criticize a profession that they have no idea about. Take a few ride alongs and see what they deal with EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. and im sure most would think otherwise about defunding them.

    Ive had good and bad experiences with LE but I still think they do a very good job and I have a great deal of understanding for what they deal with.
    All of this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masked Bandit View Post
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    And you & I are the perfect example why our opinions are skewed and essentially invalid. I've also had enough interactions with cops over the years and never once have I seen them escalate beyond reason, I've always thought these people were the most patient souls on the planet because I couldn't maintain a calm demeanor through what they see. So, you and I have very different experiences which doesn't mean either of us is wrong, it's just too small of a sample size to base a decision of "defund the police" on.
    Remember, "defund the police" is a polarizing statement that is being incorrectly used. It should be "increase funding for support/mental health responders and reduce the amount of calls police attend and the funding associated". Chris' idea re: having a cop and a social worker respond to certain calls together is a good example of where the "defund the police" movement could and probably should go.

    Maybe it should be "refocus the police" vs. defund. People don't dig and it skews the conversation. I'm not saying you are guilty of this, by the way. In every conversation I've been involved in re: "defund the police", there's always been a thread of having to explain what the phrase is actually referring to... as well as the predictable contingent of people who ignore the context and react emotionally anyway. I expect those types will be joining the conversation shortly

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    Quote Originally Posted by spikerS View Post
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    Police Departments already don't have much discretion with hiring practices now. They are constantly trying to hire new recruits and there are very few applicants. They are pretty much taking anyone with a semi-clean record and overlooking some stuff to fill positions.

    I think that if we had some units on patrol that were specifically deployed for welfare checks and other disturbance calls where there was a police officer and some form of social worker in the car who could take "lead" in these situations might make a big difference. During that time, police could be trained better in handling situations. I back the police almost always, but even I have noticed that the police are very quick to resort to physical force at the drop of a hat instead of reacting appropriately as the situation presents itself. Perhaps if there is a social worker that can respond to these events along with a police officer as backup, things would probably get better.
    Considering it's pretty much impossible to get on with CPS between budget, the application screening and no classes, I'm guessing you're not talking about Calgary when you say the police are overlooking issues and accepting applicants with semi-clean records. CPS also has mental health resources that do accompany police when needed, but you're never going to be able to send them or EMS into a situation without the police there.

    As for the assertion that CPS uses force at the drop of a hat and reacts inappropriately, is this just based off what hits the news?

    Quote Originally Posted by A790 View Post
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    Remember, "defund the police" is a polarizing statement that is being incorrectly used. It should be "increase funding for support/mental health responders and reduce the amount of calls police attend and the funding associated". Chris' idea re: having a cop and a social worker respond to certain calls together is a good example of where the "defund the police" movement could and probably should go.
    Good thing that this occurs then. But you're not going to be able to send a social worker out by themselves to a 911 call, unless you expect them to enter dangerous situations and put themselves at risk with no protection.
    Last edited by FraserB; 07-08-2020 at 10:45 AM.
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    I have no idea.

    But when was the last time the wokie crowd came up with a good idea?

    That may be a clue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan View Post
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    Can't believe they cancelled Cops the TV show. Was a great way to burn 20 minutes when I didn't want to sit down for a whole movie. Been watching that show off and on for as long as I can remember.
    way worse. Brooklyn 99 is up in the air at the moment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestalt View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by civic_stylez View Post
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    My personal belief is to increase funding to police for new techniques and training. I may be alone on this sentiment but heres why...

    Im not a police officer but I have a ton of friends that are and I have been on many ride alongs in all areas and times of this city. I think theres a big misconception for what policing actually entails. The things that they are subjected to every day of their life takes a massive toll. They go from a traffic accident where there are dead kids and go right to a call after with a guy that beat the hell out of his wife and then a call where some dude called the cops because his room mate ate his pop tarts... In no way do I think that this is a valid excuse for police brutality or illegal behavior but im sure all of us have had a shit day at work and snapped at our wife or someone because of your day at work. It happens. Taking resources away to help make these officers better trained, better supported and more assertive works against the solution in my opinion. I just think its really rich of people to criticize a profession that they have no idea about. Take a few ride alongs and see what they deal with EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. and im sure most would think otherwise about defunding them.

    Ive had good and bad experiences with LE but I still think they do a very good job and I have a great deal of understanding for what they deal with.
    This. I seriously considered applying for CPS on-and-off for about four years (2013-2017), even going to an information session, and ultimately decided not to apply for health reasons. What you said was the logical conclusion I came to after doing much research and applying common sense. The crap they have to put up with day in and day out is unbelievable. Never mind the fatigue they must feel with long shifts and cycling through 24-hour shifts every work week (8 days, iirc). Yeah, out of the approximately 2000 officers in Calgary some are just going to have a bad day once in a while and snap on someone for doing something stupid. Does it justify it? No. Is it understandable? Absolutely.

    If I had the health, I wouldn't hesitate to apply right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan View Post
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    Can't believe they cancelled Cops the TV show. Was a great way to burn 20 minutes when I didn't want to sit down for a whole movie. Been watching that show off and on for as long as I can remember.
    They really need to bring back Cop Rock for an inside look at the lighter side of police work...


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    Regardless of what the intent "Defund the police" is, it's been hijacked by the '"Fuck the police" crowd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FraserB View Post
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    Good thing that this occurs then. But you're not going to be able to send a social worker out by themselves to a 911 call, unless you expect them to enter dangerous situations and put themselves at risk with no protection.
    Nobody made the point you're trying to refute here.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by hampstor View Post
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    Regardless of what the intent "Defund the police" is, it's been hijacked by the '"Fuck the police" crowd.
    I disagree. I think that's just who people are choosing to listen to/focus on.

    What do you expect if all people read is a headline?

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