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Thread: Defund the police?

  1. #21
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    As a former uniformed RCMP, I can tell you that there is lots of room for optimization within the various forces. Delegate certain calls to social workers and other private groups for eg.

    We had one call where my partner and I had to show up and gave a pep 'talk' to a non-behaving teen at their home.

    For eg. a fender bender in Calgary where the CPS atttends, is billed at something like 800$/hr. Why not have a private service here that deals with this instead for 100$ an hour? (eg. something like Carmacks, but for crashes with no injuries)

    What I also saw a few times is a situation, that was otherwise a little aggressive, go completely shit nuts simply because a uniform showed up - nothing was said or done. It could have been the fucking mail man and this person would have flipped (anti authority complex).
    Last edited by revelations; 07-08-2020 at 11:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyL View Post
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    So... When the DOAP team ... And those are these trained social worker types who are supposed to know how to do this without violence...

    The drugs and mental health end of calls isn't passive and non violent. So what are we accomplishing here?
    A vast majority of calls to DOAP are not needing police intervention in the slightest. Additionally, DOAP allows EMS to be more available attending real emergencies than essentially working as an insanely expensive taxi.

    Like harm reduction programs, DOAP is another unintuitive program to most of the population that actually works despite what people think of it.

    I'm more than happy to have the police available for when real emergencies happen, like when a guy with an axe shows up at the front door to emergency shelters. Come to think of it, I wonder how the UK deals with violent people in their population. Do they carry guns again?

    I think more often than not police are able to de-escalate very well. We don't hear about it because it didn't go sideways but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Some incident on 17th Ave by the Popeyes was nuts, so many officers, canine, guy with a rubber bullet guy basically standing at point blank range. Also learned there are tactical EMS dressed in the same dark grey uniforms as other tac members. Eventually they calmed this guy down, no idea what happened. I don't watch the news so maybe something was broadcasted.
    Last edited by msommers; 07-08-2020 at 11:28 AM.
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    Our handling of "urgent" calls for police and medical and other is very inefficient and current skews towards sending the most expensive resources to the most situations. Like CFD attending medical-only calls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSlow View Post
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    Our handling of "urgent" calls for police and medical and other is very inefficient and current skews towards sending the most expensive resources to the most situations. Like CFD attending medical-only calls.
    Exactly - 2 police cars, 2 fire trucks and 2 ambulances show up for a minor fender bender ?? (person calling 911 was sad)

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtsniffer View Post
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    our police in calgary get a ton of training before hitting the streets.
    I dont doubt they do but do they get on going training?

    Quote Originally Posted by civic_stylez View Post
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    My personal belief is to increase funding to police for new techniques and training. I may be alone on this sentiment but heres why...

    Im not a police officer but I have a ton of friends that are and I have been on many ride alongs in all areas and times of this city. I think theres a big misconception for what policing actually entails. The things that they are subjected to every day of their life takes a massive toll. They go from a traffic accident where there are dead kids and go right to a call after with a guy that beat the hell out of his wife and then a call where some dude called the cops because his room mate ate his pop tarts... In no way do I think that this is a valid excuse for police brutality or illegal behavior but im sure all of us have had a shit day at work and snapped at our wife or someone because of your day at work. It happens. Taking resources away to help make these officers better trained, better supported and more assertive works against the solution in my opinion. I just think its really rich of people to criticize a profession that they have no idea about. Take a few ride alongs and see what they deal with EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. and im sure most would think otherwise about defunding them.

    Ive had good and bad experiences with LE but I still think they do a very good job and I have a great deal of understanding for what they deal with.
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    If there appears to be a trend of escalating police violence, consider that the justice system has been broken for decades. Can you imagine arresting some criminal dirtbags and watching them get out the next day, every day of your career. Re-focus the justice system and put true punishment back on the menu.

    Given the RCMP's roots as a paramilitary organization, one should expect to see some level of extrajudicial punishment (call it frontier justice). Im not saying its right, but its a better alternative right now than the modern liberal belief that "everyone should be treated nicely, and have dandelion fuzz blown up their ass".

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    Quote Originally Posted by e31 View Post
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    If there appears to be a trend of escalating police violence, consider that the justice system has been broken for decades. Can you imagine arresting some criminal dirtbags and watching them get out the next day, every day of your career. Re-focus the justice system and put true punishment back on the menu.

    Given the RCMP's roots as a paramilitary organization, one should expect to see some level of extrajudicial punishment (call it frontier justice). Im not saying its right, but its a better alternative right now than the modern liberal belief that "everyone should be treated nicely, and have dandelion fuzz blown up their ass".
    Its not just the RCMP, I've watched EMS treat complete shit bags with total dis-contempt as well. Pretty much any front line worker who deals with complete shit heads, does this. For eg. treat the medical issue with maximum pain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by e31 View Post
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    Given the RCMP's roots as a paramilitary organization, one should expect to see some level of extrajudicial punishment (call it frontier justice). Im not saying its right, but its a better alternative right now than the modern liberal belief that "everyone should be treated nicely, and have dandelion fuzz blown up their ass".
    Totally. It's a superior solution to reassessing our policing model. People are very happy with it, clearly.

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    I'm gonna say no for sure in the short term. Because a solid percentage of Covid recoveries are showing signs of mental instability.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenOps View Post
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    I'm gonna say no for sure in the short term. Because a solid percentage of Covid recoveries are showing signs of mental instability.
    Hey I was batshit crazy long before covid

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    Quote Originally Posted by A790 View Post
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    Nobody made the point you're trying to refute here.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I disagree. I think that's just who people are choosing to listen to/focus on.

    What do you expect if all people read is a headline?
    In hindsight saying "it's been hijacked" should've been more appropriate with "it's being hijacked". The constant videos popping up of police usage of force (often appearing to be grossly disproportionate) is growing the "fuck the police" crowd by leaps and bounds. That's what the average person seems to be doing, and my view of the average person... to quote George Carlin "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."

    Even politicians are now in on this - you can tell where a politician stands when they lead off with defunding the police first, and not focusing on having the right resources address the right issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hampstor View Post
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    In hindsight saying "it's been hijacked" should've been more appropriate with "it's being hijacked". The constant videos popping up of police usage of force (often appearing to be grossly disproportionate) is growing the "fuck the police" crowd by leaps and bounds. That's what the average person seems to be doing, and my view of the average person... to quote George Carlin "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."

    Even politicians are now in on this - you can tell where a politician stands when they lead off with defunding the police first, and not focusing on having the right resources address the right issues.
    Agreed.

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    this reminds me of the "Do People Actually Believe The World No Longer Needs Oil?" thread. Again, yes we can defund the police, we can live without laws also. The results itself can be a fart or a hurricane.

    In this scenario, in my opinion, given the nature north Americans, I would give it 1 year before the most places turn into detroit. Rich people will hire their own security and laws will be at the mercy of the rich. Rich and powerful will become empowered to do whatever they please. Middle class will be wiped out by the poor and the rich lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    I have no idea.

    But when was the last time the wokie crowd came up with a good idea?

    That may be a clue.
    Policing is much different in Calgary or Canada vs America?

    When a firearm is discharged here, that's what ASIRT is for, right? The stuff we see in the movies, no knock warrants etc, that's all America?

    Much to learn from the Toronto Officer confronting the dude who mowed some ppl down in his van awhile back, easy thing to do was just shoot the guy dead and I'm sure many ppl would have been okay with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by revelations View Post
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    Exactly - 2 police cars, 2 fire trucks and 2 ambulances show up for a minor fender bender ?? (person calling 911 was sad)
    Is that because Patrol was nearby or that's the norm? Specifically to the fender bender.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power_Of_Rotary View Post
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    this reminds me of the "Do People Actually Believe The World No Longer Needs Oil?" thread. Again, yes we can defund the police, we can live without laws also. The results itself can be a fart or a hurricane.

    In this scenario, in my opinion, given the nature north Americans, I would give it 1 year before the most places turn into detroit. Rich people will hire their own security and laws will be at the mercy of the rich. Rich and powerful will become empowered to do whatever they please. Middle class will be wiped out by the poor and the rich lol.
    It's okay, mate. We've all entered into conversations without bothering to read them before, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by max_boost View Post
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    Is that because Patrol was nearby or that's the norm? Specifically to the fender bender.
    Nothing to do with CPS nearby - the standard response is the literal float parade of ER vehicles for a simple ding.

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    Lots of posting in here that makes the assumption someone in my line of work doesn't already work "hand-in-hand" with social workers, addictions counsellors, family services, the food bank, shelters, housing aid, mental health crisis teams, safe houses, etc. I have every one of those lines on speed dial....with some avenues sending a "team" as soon as I make a phone call. Its already well established with many police services in Canada. As someone on the front line of policing if I go to a call that can be mediated civilly through one of those avenues for the betterment of that person and their situation I do it. The public might not know I do it, but it's also not their business who I help either.

    You can complain about the US model to the south of us as they lack many of the social services we have, and by default would have less partnerships with their police services.

    As for recruiting. My service recently hired 7 people out of more than 200 applicants (they were hoping to hire 11 but couldn't adequately fill those spots) so that doesn't fit the posting on here of how hiring has been relaxed. I'm sure they could have picked another 4 mediocre bodies but it's not worth it.
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    Fucking stupid idea. Seattle are doing it. We need more cops here, not fewer. The inmates are running the asylum.

    And yes, a lot of them do literally want to abolish the police.

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