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    Quote Originally Posted by zechs View Post
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    Asian countries are typically humid areas.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3457514/

    Hopefully you are willing to change your mind when presented with new information, as someone likes to say on these forums.
    ah... Florida.

    But you are right, low RH may help the spread and there are plenty of AC in Asian countries for the virus to survive indoor.

    As for aerosol transmission, thank god COVID19 isn't as bad as SARS. So you have to be near infected to get it. The scientist can debate what's aerosol and what isn't aerosol all day long. Until COVID19 starts to spread within the building via HVAC or sewage throughout the building, I won't call it aerosol transmission yet.

    Also, I don't think Vancouver and Richmond has that much different in weather pattern being like 15mins apart. Yeah one has 50% less community spread than the other. What's the variable there?
    Last edited by Xtrema; 07-22-2020 at 02:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zechs View Post
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    Asian countries are typically humid areas.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3457514/

    Hopefully you are willing to change your mind when presented with new information, as someone likes to say on these forums.
    So even less reason for asians to wear masks, but they do so anyways
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    Maybe Asians just follow the rules. We aren't rebels like you white people.
    Originally posted by rage2
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    I am user #49

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    Jesus... If this happens I think we can potentially wave goodbye to a majority of this pandemic
    Last edited by OTown; 07-22-2020 at 09:15 PM.

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    Not to discredit MedCram, far from it. But I would encourage people to try to look at multiple sources of information.
    Ultracrepidarian

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    Quote Originally Posted by msommers View Post
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    Not to discredit MedCram, far from it. But I would encourage people to try to look at multiple sources of information.
    Medcram isn't a source, it's a review of the data that emerges.

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    This is the entire discussion on which the Medcram was based. And....omg why are we not doing this?>!??!


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    The effects from the virus are more than just health related. Social, phycological, economic, and political issues are raised to the surface. We, as a society or species, cannot go "back" to whatever "normal" was pre-pandemic. There are several reasons mentioned in the podcast why using cheap crappy tests daily is not that simple.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    This is the entire discussion on which the Medcram was based. And....omg why are we not doing this?>!??!

    Aggregated, rolling time testing vs point in time would be ideal, I recall a few months back a canadian company making a fast testing unit but it seems like it got lost in the mix.
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    Quote Originally Posted by finboy View Post
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    Aggregated, rolling time testing vs point in time would be ideal, I recall a few months back a canadian company making a fast testing unit but it seems like it got lost in the mix.
    I believe health Canada didn't like the accuracy. But if cost per test is low enough, accuracy probably not a huge deal, you just increase the frequency.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xtrema View Post
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    I believe health Canada didn't like the accuracy. But if cost per test is low enough, accuracy probably not a huge deal, you just increase the frequency.
    Another minor pedantic point: "accuracy" is either related to specificity (does the test pick up non-COVID virus particles - ie a false positive), or sensitivity (does the test pick up low levels of virus or miss them - ie false negative).

    But you're right - we seem to be barking up the wrong tree by preferring sensitivity over frequency. It's really fascinating. Low sensitivity tests only miss people for a few hours of infectivity.

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    Wearing a mask doesn't matter apparently as they don't work, according to the CDC.

    https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article

    In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946–July 27, 2018. In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks (RR 0.78, 95% CI 0.51–1.20; I2 = 30%, p = 0.25) (Figure 2

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    Quote Originally Posted by zechs View Post
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    Wearing a mask doesn't matter apparently as they don't work, according to the CDC.

    https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article
    Isn't that because Flu virus is airborne whereas COVID is spread via droplets? Masks don't block airborne particles, but they block droplets pretty well

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    Quote Originally Posted by zechs View Post
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    Wearing a mask doesn't matter apparently as they don't work, according to the CDC.

    https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article
    Oh dear.

    - It's a study of influenza
    - "Most studies were underpowered because of limited sample size, and some studies also reported suboptimal adherence in the face mask group."
    - " However, as with hand hygiene, face masks might be able to reduce the transmission of other infections and therefore have value"

    Do people actually read things they post? Do people know how to assess what a source is trying to say?

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    Wow, I agree with Buster here.

    Zechs, that is pretty bad comprehension and analysis of data.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zechs View Post
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    Wearing a mask doesn't matter apparently as they don't work, according to the CDC.

    https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article
    Again we all read the same stuff you do. Don't treat inconclusive as useless, it said there in abstract that there is knowledge gap and further research are needed.

    Also, we have never dealt with something like COVID19, that variable alone invalidate previous studies which are already on shaky ground.

    The only data we should look at are the results of mask used population vs non-masked populations over this pandemic so far. While people like to point out improper use as reason not to use them, there are plenty of improper use and violation in masked countries as well.

    Just look at Ontario and jurisdictions with mandatory masks:
    https://www.blogto.com/city/2020/07/...masks-ontario/

    The result is, they are now testing more than AB per capita and still yield about same amount of positive tests as AB even when they have 3x the population and much higher density in TO/GTA. For our population, 30-40/day positive rate is tolerable. Beyond that, we are not controlling this.

    Again, everything is a moving target and we are only 4 months into learning about COVID 19. Once we tried something and it didn't work, we will try something else again or worst case scenario, lock down which NOBODY wants. Everything we are doing is to avoid another lock down but people keep trying to push us there and against or not following all recommended measures.
    Last edited by Xtrema; 07-24-2020 at 11:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zechs View Post
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    Wearing a mask doesn't matter apparently as they don't work, according to the CDC.

    https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article
    Ugh.. go away back to Edmonton
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    https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...-the-long-haul

    This week's focus seems to be on long haulers.


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    Quote Originally Posted by finboy View Post
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    Aggregated, rolling time testing vs point in time would be ideal, I recall a few months back a canadian company making a fast testing unit but it seems like it got lost in the mix.
    The public health officials have a tough job. They need to integrate this new info into policy. And it made me quite different than previous policies making managing public sentiment difficult.

    Having said that there is no excuse for the fda to be the ones determining policy. They should be assessing tests based on the design intentions of the tests themselves and let the pros determine how to them utilize those tests.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabad66 View Post
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    Isn't that because Flu virus is airborne whereas COVID is spread via droplets? Masks don't block airborne particles, but they block droplets pretty well
    https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...-finds-n839166

    The answer is maybe apparently. Which at this time seems to align with the understanding of coronavirus spread.

    Buster, yes its a study of influenza. Are you suggesting that they are so radically different that masks work for one but not for the other when masks function strictly on the size of the particle? Masks primarily work for droplets, not so good for aerosolized. Both virus are possibly aerosolized, as noted for influenza above.

    For Coronavirus in general
    "Virions (or "particles") of coronary viruses are spherical particles between 0.06 micron and 0.14 micron in diameter, averaging about 0.125 micron, measured by electron microscope (Zhu et al, 2020)."

    For Influenza
    "The virus particle (also called the virion) is 80–120 nanometers in diameter such that the smallest virions adopt an elliptical shape. The length of each particle varies considerably, owing to the fact that influenza is pleomorphic, and can be in excess of many tens of micrometers, producing filamentous virions."

    So you are suggesting that a mask that doesn't stop one, will stop the other? That is certainly not a scientific understanding of the data available. Please present any relevant articles prior to the politicized environment we are in now of masks preventing the spread of virus.

    Most studies are always underpowered and do not have great sample sets, as is becoming readily apparent with this whole pandemic.

    I would like to see multiple studies in aggregate that show masks have an effect prior to 2020. Happy to change my mind, haven't seen it yet. Came here for "science", shockingly disappointed that this thread is like arguing about climate change.
    Last edited by zechs; 07-24-2020 at 12:14 PM.

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