Trudeau has to go?

[davidI]

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I’ve been out in Ontario for a few weeks now... still haven’t talked to a single liberal... where are they hiding???

They're sitting on their asses in their parents' basement playing video games and living off their CERB/EI.

[ercchry]

It’s not even a social status thing though... people north of Toronto of all types honestly just don’t seem to be very liberal

[Sentry]

Thats the problem though, how many seats are in Toronto(GTA) and Ottawa vs the rest of Ontario?

[Misterman]

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I’ve been out in Ontario for a few weeks now... still haven’t talked to a single liberal... where are they hiding???

According to seats, they're in Toronto. When I was in Sarnia for 6 months I didn't meet any Liberals either.

[kertejud2]

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In a lot of peoples minds, conservatives = republicans = americans. And their canadian national identity boils down to "At least we're not American!", so they try to vote un-American

It's pathetic, but true if you talk to lefty voters.

Conservatives have been using the Republican playbook for years, so they’ve kind of walked into that one.

[sabad66]

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It’s not even a social status thing though... people north of Toronto of all types honestly just don’t seem to be very liberal

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According to seats, they're in Toronto. When I was in Sarnia for 6 months I didn't meet any Liberals either.

do you guys just ask every person you meet which way they vote? I assume you guys are there for work and not out with friends.

personally i keep political discussions well away from professional life, and if anyone tries to bring it up with me i just agree with them and change the subject as its not worth the potential risk of poisoning the relationship.

I feel like you guys haven't met any Liberals because they are probably just not telling you the truth if they were.

[Buster]

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Conservatives have been using the Republican playbook for years, so they’ve kind of walked into that one.

This is interesting. I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm curious what makes you say this.

[Misterman]

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do you guys just ask every person you meet which way they vote? I assume you guys are there for work and not out with friends.

personally i keep political discussions well away from professional life, and if anyone tries to bring it up with me i just agree with them and change the subject as its not worth the potential risk of poisoning the relationship.

I feel like you guys haven't met any Liberals because they are probably just not telling you the truth if they were.

I leave it alone too, but you'd be amazed I guess at how many people just want to spit the stuff out. Which really shouldn't be hard to imagine with how much of an absolute fuck up Trudeau is, people tend to use it as a talking point.

[killramos]

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do you guys just ask every person you meet which way they vote? I assume you guys are there for work and not out with friends.

personally i keep political discussions well away from professional life, and if anyone tries to bring it up with me i just agree with them and change the subject as its not worth the potential risk of poisoning the relationship.

I feel like you guys haven't met any Liberals because they are probably just not telling you the truth if they were.

Makes sense. I can’t think of anything more embarrassing than admitting you vote Liberal.

[kertejud2]

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This is interesting. I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm curious what makes you say this.

There's the more broad strokes things like using American lobbying and consulting firms in elections that had the blatant U.S. political tactics (the Robocall scandal seems so small and so long ago) and the more concentrated effort have had in the past dozen or so years, which I suppose points more to 'right wing parties around the world are behaving more like eachother in an organized way' rather than 'they are behaving like the Republicans.'

There was a noticeable shift in tone from the Harper opposition and minority years to the majority years into the 2010s. After spending the decade figuring out how the CPC could win over immigrants and minorities, they essentially gave it up in favor of the 'divide and conquer' and nativism the Republicans found success with at various levels. Basically shifting from their extremely successful courting of new Canadians and how they fit into the CPC idea of family values and traditions and fiscal responsibility, to the nativist 'barbaric activities hotline' and 'end jus soli citizenship' and other hostile to immigrants type of rallying that scared them off last time around (Lisa Raitt talked about this in her Canadaland interview on the issues she and other '905 Conservatives' faced when talking with immigrant and minority families). It basically takes things that poll well with their base, with the idea that 'if this is what is popular, it's what we should push' ignoring what brought them success before.

With divide and conquer, people might say the Liberals divide more than anybody. But the Liberals don't divide to win, they win then things get divided. It's a symptom rather than a cause. Creating the 'us vs. them', 'righties vs. lefties', 'East vs. West', 'progressives vs conservatives', 'MSM vs. (conservative) independent media' etc. has been a cornerstone of Republican strategy in building support and increasing voter turnout and one provincial (especially) and now the federal Cons have also adopted. Combine the two, and you've basically got what has been driving the Republican Party for the past 15 years. 'Us vs. Them, our culture vs. their culture, protect real American values from the libtard elites, etc.. In a two-horse race where support is pretty much level, this strategy can work since it's about how many of your supporters you can get out. But as much as people want to see it as 'CPC = right wing, Liberals = left wing' there is a major party to the left of the Liberals, and there is a wildcard province willing to just throw a wrench into anything if they feel like it where appealing to the conservative base doesn't shift the balance to their side, it shifts the fulcrum instead. (The Democrats do this in the U.S. as well, since in a team-based politics world it's basically what you have to do, but the Conservatives aren't looking to the Democrats for strategy).

The rise of 'independent media outlets' that were basically brought up in the party's communications department isn't a specifically Republican thing, more a common theme across right wing parties the world over. But their support of all things Republican, and their viewers and supporters agreeing with it and liking it and sharing it, helps ingratiate the idea that 'these people support the Conservatives, and they support the Republicans, therefore they want the Conservatives to be like Republicans...' The grass roots used to be the party's strengths, but it's their hindrance right now.

On the provincial level, conservatives have pretty much been lifting Republican policy and strategy to implement it and putting a different letterhead on it. Vouchers, 'parental rights' driven conscience bills, healthcare policy, conservative populism, etc. So the provincial conservative parties are as much a driver of feeding the 'American style politics' to the federal level as anything.

[ercchry]

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do you guys just ask every person you meet which way they vote? I assume you guys are there for work and not out with friends.

personally i keep political discussions well away from professional life, and if anyone tries to bring it up with me i just agree with them and change the subject as its not worth the potential risk of poisoning the relationship.

I feel like you guys haven't met any Liberals because they are probably just not telling you the truth if they were.

I don’t make small talk with coworkers... more so talking drunken late night ramblings at the lake

[davidI]

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There's the more broad strokes things like using American lobbying and consulting firms in elections that had the blatant U.S. political tactics (the Robocall scandal seems so small and so long ago) and the more concentrated effort have had in the past dozen or so years, which I suppose points more to 'right wing parties around the world are behaving more like eachother in an organized way' rather than 'they are behaving like the Republicans.'

There was a noticeable shift in tone from the Harper opposition and minority years to the majority years into the 2010s. After spending the decade figuring out how the CPC could win over immigrants and minorities, they essentially gave it up in favor of the 'divide and conquer' and nativism the Republicans found success with at various levels. Basically shifting from their extremely successful courting of new Canadians and how they fit into the CPC idea of family values and traditions and fiscal responsibility, to the nativist 'barbaric activities hotline' and 'end jus soli citizenship' and other hostile to immigrants type of rallying that scared them off last time around (Lisa Raitt talked about this in her Canadaland interview on the issues she and other '905 Conservatives' faced when talking with immigrant and minority families). It basically takes things that poll well with their base, with the idea that 'if this is what is popular, it's what we should push' ignoring what brought them success before.

With divide and conquer, people might say the Liberals divide more than anybody. But the Liberals don't divide to win, they win then things get divided. It's a symptom rather than a cause. Creating the 'us vs. them', 'righties vs. lefties', 'East vs. West', 'progressives vs conservatives', 'MSM vs. (conservative) independent media' etc. has been a cornerstone of Republican strategy in building support and increasing voter turnout and one provincial (especially) and now the federal Cons have also adopted. Combine the two, and you've basically got what has been driving the Republican Party for the past 15 years. 'Us vs. Them, our culture vs. their culture, protect real American values from the libtard elites, etc.. In a two-horse race where support is pretty much level, this strategy can work since it's about how many of your supporters you can get out. But as much as people want to see it as 'CPC = right wing, Liberals = left wing' there is a major party to the left of the Liberals, and there is a wildcard province willing to just throw a wrench into anything if they feel like it where appealing to the conservative base doesn't shift the balance to their side, it shifts the fulcrum instead. (The Democrats do this in the U.S. as well, since in a team-based politics world it's basically what you have to do, but the Conservatives aren't looking to the Democrats for strategy).

The rise of 'independent media outlets' that were basically brought up in the party's communications department isn't a specifically Republican thing, more a common theme across right wing parties the world over. But their support of all things Republican, and their viewers and supporters agreeing with it and liking it and sharing it, helps ingratiate the idea that 'these people support the Conservatives, and they support the Republicans, therefore they want the Conservatives to be like Republicans...' The grass roots used to be the party's strengths, but it's their hindrance right now.

On the provincial level, conservatives have pretty much been lifting Republican policy and strategy to implement it and putting a different letterhead on it. Vouchers, 'parental rights' driven conscience bills, healthcare policy, conservative populism, etc. So the provincial conservative parties are as much a driver of feeding the 'American style politics' to the federal level as anything.

All very well said.

I have no idea why the Cons keep supporting (or at least not more explicitly downplaying) Republican right-wing cornerstones like pro-life and anti-LGBTQ policies. There are no feasible further right parties in Canada right now and it costs them a lot of votes. Even if they're not actually pushing pro-life / anti-LGBTQ policies, the fact they also don't speak against them surely makes a lot of Canadians view the Canadian Cons as being similar to the US Republicans.

I understand that party unity is an issue but when the Liberals continue to poll in the majority and voters are shifting further left to the NDP and Green Party, it makes sense to shift the fulcrum of the CPC platform to the center.

I don't know enough about O'Toole yet to comment much on his chances but I highlighted the pro-life and anti-LGBTQ policies as, from what I've read, his words and actions on those subjects have been the mixed messages that try to appeal to both the small-c and big-C conservatives which won't end up satisfying either.

[ExtraSlow]

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I understand that party unity is an issue but when the Liberals continue to poll in the majority and voters are shifting further left to the NDP and Green Party, it makes sense to shift the fulcrum of the CPC platform to the center.

I heartily agree.

[max_boost]

I like what he has said so far. Makes a lot of sense to me but will see how it goes.

[Buster]

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All very well said.

I have no idea why the Cons keep supporting (or at least not more explicitly downplaying) Republican right-wing cornerstones like pro-life and anti-LGBTQ policies. There are no feasible further right parties in Canada right now and it costs them a lot of votes. Even if they're not actually pushing pro-life / anti-LGBTQ policies, the fact they also don't speak against them surely makes a lot of Canadians view the Canadian Cons as being similar to the US Republicans.

I understand that party unity is an issue but when the Liberals continue to poll in the majority and voters are shifting further left to the NDP and Green Party, it makes sense to shift the fulcrum of the CPC platform to the center.

I don't know enough about O'Toole yet to comment much on his chances but I highlighted the pro-life and anti-LGBTQ policies as, from what I've read, his words and actions on those subjects have been the mixed messages that try to appeal to both the small-c and big-C conservatives which won't end up satisfying either.

The abortion issue is much messier than people think. Opinions vary widely on abortion policy. It's not quite accurate to call it a binary issue.

Same with what you would call "anti-LGTBQ" rights. What do you mean by that?

[davidI]

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The abortion issue is much messier than people think. Opinions vary widely on abortion policy. It's not quite accurate to call it a binary issue.

Same with what you would call "anti-LGTBQ" rights. What do you mean by that?

I realize the issues are not black or white but a wish-washy platform where they don't take a clear position either way doesn't appease anyone.

[suntan]

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The abortion issue is much messier than people think. Opinions vary widely on abortion policy. It's not quite accurate to call it a binary issue.

Same with what you would call "anti-LGTBQ" rights. What do you mean by that?

Man love man: gross.
Hot lesbians: HELL YES.

[duaner]

Even Liberal MPs are scared and speaking out about the out of control spending. I sure hope we see an election this fall.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/joh...-70d958f59976/

Michelle Rempel has a good video response to this article on FB, where rumours in Ottawa are that Morneau’s team is behind some of the leaks.

[suntan]

I haven't been following the news. What leaks?

[JRSC00LUDE]

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I haven't been following the news. What leaks?

Trudeau continually pissing all over Canadians?