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  1. #41
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    @buh_buh @bcylau @The BMW Guy

    Solid info, cheers guys
    Ultracrepidarian

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    You seem like a really smart guy Sommers so good luck. You got this. My bro was in a similar situation but went and did some CFA stuff and got his Masters and is now doing some project management in some tech related field.
    Originally posted by rage2
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    I am user #49

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    If trading is what you want to get into ultimately, see if you can get into an analyst or scheduling role, although most companies won't hire schedulers without experience unless it's an internal hire. At least you start to build your market knowledge and can work towards trading. Scheduling roles will always exist as long as trading roles exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by max_boost View Post
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    You seem like a really smart guy Sommers so good luck. You got this. My bro was in a similar situation but went and did some CFA stuff and got his Masters and is now doing some project management in some tech related field.
    Whatever max boost said minus the brother part.

    I can empathize with your situation as I took rocks for jocks once and can confirm that crystallography has no transferrable skills to other industries.

    Do whatever you have passion for. A friend of mine told me that schedulers have the best orgies. Keep that in mind if you are on the fence between analyst or scheduling.

    You can do it!
    Quote Originally Posted by 89coupe View Post
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    Beyond, bunch of creme puffs on this board.
    Everything I say is satire.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by msommers View Post
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    The bad news: I think I've come to terms that my geological career coming is to an end if I continue to live in Calgary or North America for that matter.

    The good news: I know I have transferable skills that entail much more than 'looking at rocks all day'. A friend of mine suggested gas trading, explained a bit about it and thought there would be more opportunities available now and going forward. Is anyone here a trader that could comment? What qualifications/courses would you suggest as I don't have a formal business or marketing background.

    I've considered an MBA and frankly, it is way too expensive to cover personally, particularly because it doesn't guarantee anything at all. I've considered doing a CFA Level I but I'm not sure what doors specifically this could open me up to other than Equity Research which I have zero desire to do based on everyone I know that has done it or is doing it.

    Lots of you guys genuinely know what Geos do, what their role is, and what skills they have. I'm really open to any suggestions of where to zoom into in terms of new career paths. I kind of had a mental breakdown the other day about just being a bag-boy the rest of my life but things are on the upswing again
    Why wouldn't you go for an MBA? Yes, it's expensive with no clear end destination but it might be exactly what you are looking for. Just pick the best MBA school out east and go for it. Being on that journey will be a great experience and doors will open, I firmly believe that. Loans are easy to come by, borrowing is cheap, you are investing in yourself.

    I don't know much about the O&G industry, apart from what I read in the Calgary Sun and posts from ExtraSlow, but it seems like hard grinding for the next while with limited opportunities for those on the outside.

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    Interesting take. I work with lots of MBA holders, and have looked hard at doing one. The one consistent piece of advice I’ve received is exactly the opposite of what you’re suggesting. Don’t do an MBA unless you have a clear outcome you want to achieve. If you know what you want to get out of it, you can target a school that delivers the best program for your focus area, and ensure you get the most out of your program. Conversely if you just pick a school and go for it, that is not an efficient use of time or capital.

    Ymmv I guess. Haha

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    I'm not an MBA so can't relate, but will elaborate on my post by saying that clearly he has certain aptitudes and interests so that should help focus on a set of programs and potential career paths, rather than taking the "unpainted canvas" route haha.

    Mid-thirties is not old. Pursuing higher education in a new environment and surrounding yourself with motivated and opportunistic learners is rarely a wrong move.

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    Investing in yourself is the big takeaway. For example I took a production accounting certificate. Even though I never used it, it helped me understand fractions and how to bitch about deadlines - which are fully transferable skill sets in any industry.
    As for the MBA, it is better if you can con your employer to pay for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by 89coupe View Post
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    Beyond, bunch of creme puffs on this board.
    Everything I say is satire.

  9. #49
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    CFA is more valuable if finance/trading is the route you want to go, just ensure you actually follow through with the designation as completing lvl's 1 and 2 dont really mean shit.

    Also, like other have said the career path is typically analyst -> scheduler -> trader. However, as a scheduler you can make a pretty decent living with less stress/work hours which = better work/life balance.

    Traders are usually a particular type of person as well btw

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    Mid thirties isn’t old? Here I thought mid 20’s was old these days.
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
    Originally posted by Toma
    fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yolobimmer View Post
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    guessing who I might be, psychologizing me with your non existent degree.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by buh_buh View Post
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    If trading is what you want to get into ultimately, see if you can get into an analyst or scheduling role, although most companies won't hire schedulers without experience unless it's an internal hire. At least you start to build your market knowledge and can work towards trading. Scheduling roles will always exist as long as trading roles exist.
    I'm hearing what you're saying. I tend to look at "what is the end goal" and just do whatever is needed to get there. Life happens and sometimes that doesn't work out. That said, if Analyst is where I need to start then that will be my focus. Are there any particular courses, skills or programs I could learn to be able to point to on a resume/coffee?

    Quote Originally Posted by kJUMP View Post
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    Why wouldn't you go for an MBA? Yes, it's expensive with no clear end destination but it might be exactly what you are looking for. Just pick the best MBA school out east and go for it. Being on that journey will be a great experience and doors will open, I firmly believe that. Loans are easy to come by, borrowing is cheap, you are investing in yourself.

    I don't know much about the O&G industry, apart from what I read in the Calgary Sun and posts from ExtraSlow, but it seems like hard grinding for the next while with limited opportunities for those on the outside.
    To your first point, the expense is a major consideration as is the time to do it. From the <10 people I know with an MBA, the common thread is they didn't learn anything specifically helpful, it didn't open any meaningful doors for them, but the network they got was invaluable. The same group either had Dad pay for it or the company.

    A few months ago, I met with someone pretty high up at CIBC to talk corporate lending and equity trading, and her comments surrounding an MBA were mixed - no it's not required but when 9/10 people have it and you don't, you're screwed. Then again she didn't have one and is doing very well so it's hardly necessary to do well. Personally, obtaining an MBA and its benefits haven't been as clear-cut as I would have hoped for.

    Lastly, when I stopped working at a well-paying but the sporadic and entirely field-based job to purse my MSc., it was a gamble but I knew what I could do with it: have perfect grades for companies like Exxon, be a lot more marketable locally and end up in the office, end up in management positions down the road, or open doors to work internationally as an MSc. is essentially required (Europeans all have an MSc. because it's essentially the same as doing a BSc. here with a capstone/small-thesis component). Locally things are the worst they've ever been and worldwide, anyone with <15-20 yrs of O&G experience as a Geo has been hammered and are needing to transition to something else.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Rural_Juror View Post
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    Investing in yourself is the big takeaway.
    I will agree with the caveat that more education doesn't guarantee anything, or in my case, am worse off. I have an irrational fear of being an over-educated, debt-ridden individual who ends up working at a gas station. Point being, yes I want to invest in myself and am not opposed to spending the time and money necessary to do so, but need to have clear-cut, justified reasons to pursue more education. I am not in a financial position to learn new skills out of hoping for something better (ie: naive, livin' on a prayer) -- it needs to be actionable.

    I appreciate everyone's comments, both publically and privately.
    Last edited by msommers; 08-22-2020 at 12:23 PM.
    Ultracrepidarian

  12. #52
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    Sounds like your current experience could land you an analyst role easy, albeit if there are any positions out there. It's essentially and entry level positon...

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    Used to work in a energy marketing shop so thought I'd share some knowledge.

    No shop is going to hire you as a trader, unless you have previous P/L responsibility and ran a book (or your dad is VP of the trading group). Almost every shop wants to develop and build people their way and get them to learn the ropes, the culture, and the fit in the team. All the energy marketing guys are a super tight knit group, so its more about fit than any skills/courses you bring to the table. They would prefer you know nothing and teach you and build you from the ground up. The typical way they would bring someone on is as an analyst (risk analysis, reporting, trade reports etc.) and see how you handle that. If you do well, then they will want you to start cross training, and learning a bit about trading, scheduling etc.

    If you do well, scheduling will be the next place for you. I know people who have grinded in this role for years, and still haven't broke out to the trade desk. Scheduling is what it sounds like. You are responsible for the physical scheduling of the product (nat gas, crude) to get it from point A to point B. This is a super tough role to be in with a lot of responsibility. you are expected to be on call 24/7, deal with shipping issues at 2am, etc. If you do well though, then you've set yourself up to be a trader. Like your buddy said, its a great job and most people don't leave this type of work as it pays well.

    As an industry, things have changed alot over the last 10-15 years. The last few years have been much more difficult to make money (as a whole from a business unit perspective). Gone are the days of more financial, speculative trading, and nowadays are more just pure physical trading (point A to point B). You can see this by the number of shops that have reduced headcount, or pretty much all but packed up and left.

    That being said, you can have a great career in energy trading if your in it for the long haul! if your just looking for a "job", it probably isn't for you.

    Let me know if you have more questions

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marsh View Post
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    Let me know if you have more questions
    How does one obtain a large, yet finite, amount of tendies?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kJUMP View Post
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    I'm not an MBA so can't relate, but will elaborate on my post by saying that clearly he has certain aptitudes and interests so that should help focus on a set of programs and potential career paths, rather than taking the "unpainted canvas" route haha.

    Mid-thirties is not old. Pursuing higher education in a new environment and surrounding yourself with motivated and opportunistic learners is rarely a wrong move.
    The grind the GrInd the grind. Late 30s here and burnt the fk out lol Ready to retire and live like a peasant than trying to keep up with the BBC (Beyond Ballers Club).
    Originally posted by rage2
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    I am user #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by max_boost View Post
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    The grind the GrInd the grind. Late 30s here and burnt the fk out lol Ready to retire and live like a peasant than trying to keep up with the BBC (Beyond Ballers Club).
    I've been burned out for 5 years or so.

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    7.2 is going to take a while. You guys burn yourselves out. Me? I am happy with 0.420.

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    As been said a few times, the standard route is entry level analyst, then scheduling and hopefully graduate to trading. With your experience you may be able to skip the analyst and go to scheduling, that would depend on you and the company.
    I did the analyst/other oil & gas then scheduling route and was just starting to be given a small amount of Aeco gas to trade when I decided on a career change. Decent money, being on call gets annoying, but your average work hours is appealing. Generally early in and early out if everything is done right, there isnt a lot to do after ~3pm.

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    I've been a trader for most of my career as part of my job and everyone here has pretty much covered everything. Nobody is going to put you in charge of millions or tens of millions of dollars of product without going through lots of training and probably starting you out as an analyst. The only thing I don't like is literally being on call every single day (Christmas included) to balance pipeline positions, but you get used to it and you don't always need to do something. I have a business background and trading is just like 95% of jobs out there - anyone can do it if they are competent and trained properly. Certain companies might want you to have a particular education or background but experience matters more.

    Pretty much anyone can be an Analyst if you know how to make a spreadsheet haha. That's probably what you will have to do to get your foot in the door.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu3000gt View Post
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    I've been a trader for most of my career as part of my job
    I KNEW IT! I always knew you were a big swinging dick.

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