Oil/Gas Trading or Other

[The_Rural_Juror]

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wonder if they still wear the same white shirts and blue suits for a week straight or do they keep an extra white shirt and matching blue suit in the office?

Most analysts can't afford multiple suits. Who do you think they are? Dentists?
Good to go so long as the pit stains don't show.

So...elephant in the room. You guys adopting? I mow lawns and make excellent fried rice.

[msommers]

Has anyone taken a career counselling test, something like The Highlands Ability Battery? Any companies in town for career advising/counselling people could recommend?

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I don’t see how geology really lends itself to a commodity trading role, aside from knowing where the gas comes from.

This would be a full career restart, and if you think there is no future in oil and gas I don’t see how diving into O&G commodity trading is really any different regarding job pool saturation (way wider talent pool to draw from to recruit new traders too, you are competing with every haskayne bcomm willing to grind at the job for pennies which really drives comp to the bottom of the barrel).

Ever considered pivoting to hard rock instead? Had a buddy who planned on O&G geology pivot quickly into that when he graduated into a market of 0 jobs and has made a decent career of it working steadily for the past 4 years. He does 3 weeks on 2 weeks off logging core and really likes the lifestyle.

I don't think "there is no future in oil and gas", however as a Geologist in O&G over the last 10 years, I'm exhausted from working contract to contract for 4-8 months either for the same company or different ones with no stability at all and empty promises. I've been part of two major reorgs at large companies about to give me a letter of offer. My luck in this industry has been horrendous. Moreover, the ratio of the applicants to positions is eye-watering -- I recently applied to one that was just over 500:1 - not hyperbole because that is what the hiring manager told me.

Hard rock is about the same from folks I know out East. I'm competing with more schools for more or less the same ratio of jobs. I would still apply but with the same hope of how things are local.

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Coal mining Geo?

I applied to multiple Teck positions however I'm convinced they hate Albertans. After many applications with internal referrals and no interviews I'm not sure what to make of it, and I'm doubtful it's my resume because so many eyes have been on it. Hopefully there are other opportunities from other companies I am unaware, and would happily apply to/meet with people.

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G.I.T.? Your friend suggesting that you go into trading...has he/she been in trading before?

I should be getting my P.Geo in Sept considering I've been in a queue for review well over 8 months now. Yes he was a scheduler and is now a trader, with a friend or two who were in Geology and are now in trading. Meeting pending with those folks.

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How old are you?

Mid-thirties.

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Any interest in blogging about Mustangs?

No.

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He might as well just stay in EI! Lol

Starting out at the bottom of commodity trading can be a grind. Be prepared to be up at 430-5 am for the rest of your life for starters.

It's less about start time, but more so the 430am - 1130pm I've heard of Equity Research. I could do that for a short while (~1 year) but clearly not something that anyone wants to do long-term.


-Thanks all.

[The_Rural_Juror]

Good. One more month to roll out the GIT jokes.
Just do what Buster does if you want tendies without the work hours.
COD > CFA

[Buster]

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Good. One more month to roll out the GIT jokes.
Just do what Buster does if you want tendies without the work hours.
COD > CFA

uh, you do see me posting at 3am right? You think I'm up with the bottles and models?

[The_Rural_Juror]

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uh, you do see me posting at 3am right? You think I'm up with the bottles and models?

Posting isn't working.

[Buster]

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Posting isn't working.

You think I do this shit for @rage2 for free?

[The_Rural_Juror]

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You think I do this shit for @rage2 for free?

He pays at least $30/hr with a full health plan.

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@msommers Why do you want to be a trader?

[Disoblige]

If you want to be a gas trader or commodity trading in general, it might be beneficial to start off as a scheduler and learn the ropes a bit first. It will make it a lot easier to transition into a trader since you'd have your foot in the door already.

[killramos]

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uh, you do see me posting at 3am right? You think I'm up with the bottles and models?

I just assumed that was a symptom of children...

[The_Rural_Juror]

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If you want to be a gas trader or commodity trading in general, it might be beneficial to start off as a scheduler and learn the ropes a bit first. It will make it a lot easier to transition into a trader since you'd have your foot in the door already.

But he's old.

[90_Shelby]

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My wife is a p.eng with her cfa and was doing corporate development/m&a for one of the big producers.

She's also my wife's boss.

[The_Rural_Juror]

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She's also my wife's boss.

The soup thickens.

[Pacman]

What's wrong with being an analyst? aren't those well compensated jobs and less hours than the bankers down the hall?

[killramos]

Depends on what you mean by analyst

[msommers]

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- - - Updated - - -
@msommers Why do you want to be a trader?

It wasn't on my radar until the conversation I had the other night. In his opinion the transition wouldn't mean going back to school for another degree/diploma except maybe 3-4 courses. The pay is good, I'm using my brain a lot, socializing but most importantly it sounded like a job that had potential to be around for the next 30 years and willing to accept juniors.

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If you want to be a gas trader or commodity trading in general, it might be beneficial to start off as a scheduler and learn the ropes a bit first. It will make it a lot easier to transition into a trader since you'd have your foot in the door already.

In the above mentioned conversation, he had said he worked as a scheduler and then into trading. I would be more than happy to do scheduling. An additional question to this would be: what courses or qualifications would be most helpful to highlight my abilities to do the job?

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What's wrong with being an analyst? aren't those well compensated jobs and less hours than the bankers down the hall?

If this was a question for me, the answer is nothing is wrong with an Analyst. I will say though, Analyst seems like the most generic term I have come across in all my job searching that it has lost any specific meaning to me. The only specific attribute in common is "proficient in Excel" which I can do just fine

[The_Rural_Juror]

As someone who has a few traders in my 3+ connection level on LinkedIn. I can tell you that courses won't help. You are either a douchebag or you aren't. I also learned everything I know about trading from the short term investments thread, so I consider myself to be a semi-pro. Straddles and shit.

[buh_buh]

Typical career path is Analyst -> Scheduling -> Trading. That way you understand risk, market analytics, how P&L is generated, the actual movement of crude/gasoline before you even get a sniff of trading. Companies are unlikely to hire even a jr trader with no experience so you can put their millions on the line daily so you can learn on the job.

[bcylau]

probably second the analyst/ scheduling route. Some shops have new hires start as schedulers, well assistants/ analysts to the schedulers, which is pretty close to physical trading as they will have a book. long term/ forecasting analysts usually rank higher than the schedulers. your best in "trading" is probably the jr analyst role, then move up from there.

there are a few real-time trader jobs right now, but those are power/ electricity jobs. and those jobs tend to be the most jr job in electricity trading. I started as a real time trader when I was an intern.

[The BMW Guy]

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It wasn't on my radar until the conversation I had the other night. In his opinion the transition wouldn't mean going back to school for another degree/diploma except maybe 3-4 courses. The pay is good, I'm using my brain a lot, socializing but most importantly it sounded like a job that had potential to be around for the next 30 years and willing to accept juniors.

I work closely with the trading team at my firm and they most definitely are not willing to accept juniors. Almost no shop in town will take on a new person that has no knowledge of the market (analyst) or how the product moves (schedulers). I'll second what others have said in that you'll have to go analyst/scheduler route, learn the ropes and then hope to god one of the traders leave so you can try to throw your name in for the seat.

In general, it is easier to get in as an analyst from your background. Learn some data analysis skills (even just knowing VBA is a big bonus). I'd recommend CFA as well, even though it doesn't help in commodity trading much, people still like the title when reviewing candidates. About 80% of the analyst where I'm at are engineers/comp sci (CFA or partial CFA), rest are finance majors. For schedulers I see mainly finance people as it is a very relationship based role. For transition, I see mainly schedulers go into physical trading roles as they are usually the best fit once a trader leaves the shop. However I find the analyst role more beneficial in learning the important factors that affect price/trading and the top analyst at our shop usually get a trading seat if they come up with good trade ideas. 70% of the traders are finance background with the rest being engineers.

[The_Rural_Juror]

@The BMW Guy has good points.