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  1. #201
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    Damn I thought my 6600k was pushing it from 2015.
    Nolan

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    This should put any debate to rest regarding which video card to get:


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu3000gt View Post
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    This should put any debate to rest regarding which video card to get:

    Not to mention letters too. Nvidia could only afford R T X whereas AMD shelled out for R X X T. Obviously the extra X means it's 69% better.
    Nolan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx Mazda View Post
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    I guess this is a bad time to mention that I'm still on an E8500 and dual GTX 780's?

    All I really play is BF3, so it gets the job done for me!
    I've got a 780 TI SC that's going into retirement.

    Had planned to upgrade it during the 2XXX generation but never pulled the trigger as it seemed like a let down.

    Trying to decide between the 3080 and 6800XT now. Deciding factor will probably be availability.

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    AMD published some more benchmarks - looking really good if true:

    https://www.computerbase.de/2020-10/...xt-benchmarks/

    6800XT (3080 competitor) faster than 3090 in some games at less than half the price. I find it particularly interesting that Borderlands 3 had one of the biggest Nvidia 2000 --> 3000 series performance increases, and the AMD 6000 series appears to beat it handily in that particular title.

    You can buy a 12-core 5900X, 6800XT, and a high end mobo for less than a 3090 haha.
    Last edited by Mitsu3000gt; 10-30-2020 at 04:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx Mazda View Post
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    What’s the big fucken deal over being “one of the first” to own something? I never understood it. People who camp out to buy shit? Give me a break...

    Anyways, I’ll wait till the new year, once both cards have a few miles on em before I make up my mind. Sounds like the AMD cards will perform better on a RYZEN system, being able to access the system memory directly I guess?
    My mentality on tech is that it doesn’t so much wear out as it effectively expires. The sooner you get it, the longer you can use it before it is obsolete and needs replacing. Combined with Moore’s law is why tech over a year or 2 old is essentially worthless to me, because the new is such a better value proposition.
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

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    fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chandler_Racing View Post
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    I've got a 780 TI SC that's going into retirement.

    Had planned to upgrade it during the 2XXX generation but never pulled the trigger as it seemed like a let down.

    Trying to decide between the 3080 and 6800XT now. Deciding factor will probably be availability.
    Yeah, honestly we don't use the "gaming" desktop much. The Mrs. plays Sims 3/4 quite a bit, and I play BF3, Crysis, Far Cry(s) etc. It gets the job done since I only game in 1080P. Its time to upgrade though. That entire system is heavily overclocked, there are about 6 waterblocks in the system (even the motherboard) that old E8500 has been stable on 4.5GHz for almost a decade, so even though it's just a dual core, it does what we need it to.

    I do plan to upgrade in the new year, I like the offerings in this hardware cycle. 10700K system seems to be the sweet spot as far as bang for the buck.
    ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx Mazda View Post
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    Yeah, honestly we don't use the "gaming" desktop much. The Mrs. plays Sims 3/4 quite a bit, and I play BF3, Crysis, Far Cry(s) etc. It gets the job done since I only game in 1080P. Its time to upgrade though. That entire system is heavily overclocked, there are about 6 waterblocks in the system (even the motherboard) that old E8500 has been stable on 4.5GHz for almost a decade, so even though it's just a dual core, it does what we need it to.

    I do plan to upgrade in the new year, I like the offerings in this hardware cycle. 10700K system seems to be the sweet spot as far as bang for the buck.
    I would stay far away from anything Intel for the next while. Even the flagship 10900K loses to a lowly 5600X by a significant margin in single core, which is where Intel has hung it's hat for so many years.

    This is just one metric, but it showcases how long Intel has been sitting on its laurels. The 10XXXK CPUs are still built on 6 year old Skylake architecture and an ancient 14nm process node. Thermals are also quite bad.

    Last edited by Mitsu3000gt; 10-31-2020 at 05:55 PM.

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    I'd say wait as well Maxx Mazda, at least until the real world reviews of the new AMD cpus are out. It looks very likely that AMD may be the go-to CPUs in any price range/category, as well as possibly the best GPUs. I'm going to keep my 10900k/3090 system, but wait to upgrade other systems until a bunch of reviews come out, as I'd really like to build all AMD machines (CPU/GPU at least) if possible. I have no brand loyalty, I only care about performance, and primarily VR performance.

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    i7 4790k and a R9 280X here. I wanted a 3080 but with Nvidia's stock situation the way it is, I'm probably going to end up going 6800x. Typically I wait for a few months after release but with how much my GPU struggles, I need a new card ASAP.

    Ryzen 5000 is tempting, but I think AMD is moving to the AM5 socket next year with DDR5 capabilities so I'll wait for that.

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    Thanks for the input guys, I won't be building a new rig until probably the new year, so I'll have had lots of time to look at the various offerings from both companies.

    Does Intel have anything "significant" in development? I wouldn't want to build a new machine only to have it become irrelevant a month later.
    ...

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    Intel is behind the 8 ball. Nothing suggests they will have an answer to AMD.

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    Intel put out some cheezy tweet around the time of AMDs announcement for big news soon. But no ones expecting big news. They need a big architecture improvement and to get of 14++++++++ to make any gains on AMD, nevermind take the lead. The only big thing I would expect, is their newer offerings to start really pushing pcie 4, and seperately ddr5 on server gear.
    Last edited by colsankey; 11-01-2020 at 11:19 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx Mazda View Post
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    Does Intel have anything "significant" in development? I wouldn't want to build a new machine only to have it become irrelevant a month later.
    Nope.

    Intel's next release is an architecture originally designed for 10nm, but because they can't even get there yet (Intel promised to be on 10nm back in 2015 and they haven't been able to make it work), they ported it back to 14nm which is not at all ideal. It's going to be another disaster for them IMO. Meanwhile Zen 4 is on track for 5nm in 2022.

    They also just sold off their NAND business for $5B and fired their CMO.

    I think the most you will see from Intel in the next year or so is PCI 4.0 and maybe DDR5 support. AMD is going to have a field day in 2021 for Desktop and Mobile. Xbox and PS5 both chose AMD hardware as well which bodes well for support and cross platform games that are common between PC/Console.

    The last AMD CPU I owned was a K62 in ~1998. Intel had a monopoly for too long and they got caught with their pants down in an industry that is not easily overhauled with fab retooling, etc. They sold grossly overpriced CPUs built on old architecture for so long just because they could and I am happy they are finally getting beat across the board and for a fraction of the price in many cases.

    Intel makes most of their CPU money selling to SI's like Dell, HP, etc. and data centers. Various agreements they have in place with those SI's is why you don't see more Ryzen CPUs in laptops - this is supposed to change in 2021 so we'll see. Most laptop reviews these days finish with something along the lines of "this would be good if it had a Ryzen CPU option".
    Last edited by Mitsu3000gt; 11-01-2020 at 01:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyra1ax View Post
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    i7 4790k and a R9 280X here. I wanted a 3080 but with Nvidia's stock situation the way it is, I'm probably going to end up going 6800x. Typically I wait for a few months after release but with how much my GPU struggles, I need a new card ASAP.

    Ryzen 5000 is tempting, but I think AMD is moving to the AM5 socket next year with DDR5 capabilities so I'll wait for that.
    Keep in mind DDR5 is probably not going to be good for a couple years after it gets released. It took a long time for DDR4 to 'get good' and be a mature standard.

    There will ALWAYS be something else just around the corner, just got to pick a time haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu3000gt View Post
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    Keep in mind DDR5 is probably not going to be good for a couple years after it gets released. It took a long time for DDR4 to 'get good' and be a mature standard.

    There will ALWAYS be something else just around the corner, just got to pick a time haha.
    DDR5 gonna be expensive as fuck too though. No more unbuffered ram, and dual channels on a single ram stick and it's requiring active circuitry ... Gonna be a big price jump.
    Nolan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu3000gt View Post
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    Nope.

    Intel's next release is an architecture originally designed for 10nm, but because they can't even get there yet (Intel promised to be on 10nm back in 2015 and they haven't been able to make it work), they ported it back to 14nm which is not at all ideal. It's going to be another disaster for them IMO. Meanwhile Zen 4 is on track for 5nm in 2022.

    They also just sold off their NAND business for $5B and fired their CMO.

    I think the most you will see from Intel in the next year or so is PCI 4.0 and maybe DDR5 support. AMD is going to have a field day in 2021 for Desktop and Mobile. Xbox and PS5 both chose AMD hardware as well which bodes well for support and cross platform games that are common between PC/Console.

    The last AMD CPU I owned was a K62 in ~1998. Intel had a monopoly for too long and they got caught with their pants down in an industry that is not easily overhauled with fab retooling, etc. They sold grossly overpriced CPUs built on old architecture for so long just because they could and I am happy they are finally getting beat across the board and for a fraction of the price in many cases.

    Intel makes most of their CPU money selling to SI's like Dell, HP, etc. and data centers. Various agreements they have in place with those SI's is why you don't see more Ryzen CPUs in laptops - this is supposed to change in 2021 so we'll see. Most laptop reviews these days finish with something along the lines of "this would be good if it had a Ryzen CPU option".
    AMD can't compete with Intel in the SI space because they don't have their own fabs so they are hilariously limited in terms of volume as they need to slot time in with TSMC. AMD couldn't even keep their 4000 series in stock so do you really think Dell is going to go off and build AMD laptops when AMD can't produce the required volume for retail stores?

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    Lenovo is, I dont see why everyone else won't start when AMD is crushing it so bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mazdavirgin View Post
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    AMD can't compete with Intel in the SI space because they don't have their own fabs so they are hilariously limited in terms of volume as they need to slot time in with TSMC. AMD couldn't even keep their 4000 series in stock so do you really think Dell is going to go off and build AMD laptops when AMD can't produce the required volume for retail stores?
    That's not the reason. If supply was a problem, they would have never got the contracts for Xbox/PS5 which will sell in insane numbers. Over 110 million PS4's have sold and it will be similar for the PS5, and probably similar amount of Xbox's. The PS5 and new Xbox are using not only Ryzen CPUs but also GPUs, all of which they will build at TSMC to my knowledge. Also you can't really compare 4000 series availability or anything in 2020 with any accuracy, everything was so messed up with COVID with plants periodically shutting down, etc. Intel/Nvidia have specific agreements with the SI's which is also one reason you never saw a GPU above a 2060 with something like a Ryzen 4900HS. 2020 was kind of a transition year for everyone to see that Ryzen destroys Intel in the mobile market especially, and I think 2021 you will see a lot more Ryzen CPUs popping up in the mainstream flagships like the Dell XPS line (hopefully).

    Most companies don't have their own fabs and have no problem serving enormous markets. Sony is one of the only camera manufacturers making their own sensors for example, and nearly everyone else buys theirs from Sony Semiconductor. Apple uses TSMC to make their iphone/ipad CPUs and they had no problem serving their absolutely enormous market, one that is certainly larger than desktop or mobile Ryzen.

    There is another issue with market perception. The average SI buyer is not an enthusiast like you or I, it is a regular person uninterested in the details of computers and they have only heard the word "Intel" for the last 20 years, having probably never even heard of AMD or Ryzen as AMD wasn't really relevant since the late 90's again until 2017. Selling Ryzen laptops to those people is more difficult, even when the vocal enthusiast group is begging companies like Dell and HP to build more high-end Ryzen laptops rather than reserving them for the lower-end units. That improved a lot with Ryzen 4000 as AMD refused to sell CPUs to certain SI's unless they could guarantee a certain level of specification in the laptop it was going into, and that is another reason why you see fewer of them. Despite how good AMD is objectively, it takes time for them to become a brand name people want without really knowing anything about them - kind of like what Hyundai/Kia had to struggle with for so long after being irrelevant for a couple decades.
    Last edited by Mitsu3000gt; 11-01-2020 at 09:17 PM.

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    Picked up an EVGA FTW3 Ultra 3090 at memory express for 4k gaming since I got a really good deal on 4k 144hz G-Sync monitor (XG27UQ)
    Totally pointless upgrade from a 2080 Ti if you're a 1440p gamer, however at 4k I've been extremely impressed with the performance and how big of an upgrade it is compared to the 2080 Ti I had.

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