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  1. #61
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    +5648945618 for waiting a few weeks.
    Also, there's this monstrosity of a spreadsheet to help you figure out what motherboard is good and which ones you should pass on.
    I think there's another list somewhere...might take me a while to find it.

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    That's a good spreadsheet.

    To save yourself some time, the go-to 'mainstream' boards for X570 are the Gigabyte Aorus Elite and the Asus TUF X570. The primary difference is the Gigabyte has a better LAN controller (Intel) however at the prices the TUF boards are at currently on sale, I would go that route on a budget.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu3000gt View Post
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    I still stand by what I said in my first post that you really should wait a month on all of this if at all possible. Ryzen 5000 (announced Oct 8, should be available soon after) is going to be a huge performance/dollar increase and it's just around the corner. Right now is arguably the worst possible time to build a PC because on the AMD side you have a huge generational performance bump only weeks away, and on the Intel side they are still recycling their 6 year old Skylake garbage, soon to be replaced by Rocket Lake in 2021. On the GPU side, Ampere just got announced and the 2XXX series of GPUs was the most underwhelming series in a long time. You would be essentially doubling down on all the lowest value items and locking them in for years, all for the sake of a matter of weeks.

    Also, if you wait just a little bit longer, not only will you get the benefit of seeing what AMD's new GPUs bring to the table, but something like the 3060 might be available for you as well.

    Waiting would also give you time to survey the Amazon Prime days, which it seemed like you wanted to do.

    That ASUS B550 board isn't bad but the X570 TUF board I linked is better and also gets you the X570 chipset for a very good price (it's on sale too). I would stick with that one unless you are running over budget. The money you save not buying Windows from Memory Express pays for the better mobo and then some. PSU and Mobo are the two main areas you do not want to cheap out on.

    Not sure how much of a rush you're in but you only would have to wait until Friday for the thermal compound from Amazon and that's a pretty important part of any build. It's the only one I use and wins all the objective testing that I have seen.

    I think you are going to regret not waiting just a little bit longer when you see how much better everything is for the same price and in such a short amount of time. Unless this is an emergency I would strongly suggest not buying a PC right now.
    Thanks for the detailed response Mitsu. I appreciate it.
    I can wait(I don't want to). I wont deny but it is incredibly frustrating. I have been off sick for the last two weeks and Im going nutts. I don't want to be non PC/gaming coming this November/ xmas.
    I open this up for discussion. I guess my position is at what point does one do a technology cut off and buy? I remember having this discussion back in 1998 when I got my first PC for university. I had that thing running till 2007.

    I was planning to get something earlier this year, laptop vs PC build. Then prices went wonky. .
    There is even a video online that I watched today. It was posted four months ago and it was a video talking aboyt not to buy as prices are high.
    Now finally I got some put together for specs after watching got knows how many boring tech videos. Then there is a CPU jump coming October 8th. Rumours for release end of October or early next year. Does one wait till then..? But then what about cost? Then ones has cyber monday coming (Nov 30th). So when does one cut off?
    I have watched videos on the increased cores etc. But by the time that is really utilized, would one not be buying a new PC at that point as there would be something else out by then?

    The other question I have is, when there is a tech jump. With the lag time in game/software development. Is that increase in power really getting used right away?
    At Memx the sales rep did not advise overclocking as the gains are only 2%. Is he correct? I dont get how this got so complicated. The memx sale for some of those prices end October 1st.
    If anyone can add to this discussion I'd be grateful as Im finding non of the online tech videos answering these questions. A lot of them talk about spec but dont really provide anything in applied real world applications.

    If I had to explain it in car terms it would be this.
    I used to have a end model MK4 Golf GTI. Then the MK5 came out. Was the gain that much better to justify the cost? I did not think so. With the aftermarket stuff and prices I'd say its better to keep the MK4 GTI and boost it to Stage 3.
    So in computing terms is the Ryzen 5000 that much better in applied computing terms and not just specs?

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    I wouldn't trust people at memex anymore unfortunately.

    Very old example, but my i5 3750k, had a base clock of 3.4 ghz, witha factory boost to 3.9 or 4.1. Running now at 4.5.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonytiger55
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    . I guess my position is at what point does one do a technology cut off and buy?
    Gaming isn't cpu limited. Its gpu limited.

    Futureproofing is bullshit, there is no such thing. Computer tech is replaced every year or two years with better.

    If anything, I'd try to make sure the architecture I supported had an upgrade path that didn't require replacing major components to do a simple upgrade.

    My point? There is no "good" time to buy except one could maybe argue Black Friday/Cyber Monday/Boxing day sales.

    As I mentioned, I built a PC in January. The price of the components have not really dropped throughout the entire year. This same thing happened when I bought my last PC as well.

    My last computer, ran it for 5 years, no issues with 1080p gaming the entire time. If I wanted higher settings, I upgraded the GPU.

    Only other suggestion is that once again, I will stress, paying tons of money for top tier equipment is silly. Just like buying the best of the best SSD is a waste unless you are a power user, same goes for mobo etc. Realistically, you will never enter bios settings again after initial setup, so as long as the board has the features you want, call it a day. Gamers Nexus and Hardware Unboxed, sure the info about VRM and other features of various other equipment is great and all, but unlikely to affect the vast majority (including gamers).

    Find stuff that has good performance/$$$ value. Buy it, save some cash, run a good rig for years that was cheap. Rinse and repeat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zechs View Post
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    Gaming isn't cpu limited. Its gpu limited.

    Futureproofing is bullshit, there is no such thing. Computer tech is replaced every year or two years with better.

    If anything, I'd try to make sure the architecture I supported had an upgrade path that didn't require replacing major components to do a simple upgrade.

    My point? There is no "good" time to buy except one could maybe argue Black Friday/Cyber Monday/Boxing day sales.

    As I mentioned, I built a PC in January. The price of the components have not really dropped throughout the entire year. This same thing happened when I bought my last PC as well.

    My last computer, ran it for 5 years, no issues with 1080p gaming the entire time. If I wanted higher settings, I upgraded the GPU.

    Only other suggestion is that once again, I will stress, paying tons of money for top tier equipment is silly. Just like buying the best of the best SSD is a waste unless you are a power user, same goes for mobo etc. Realistically, you will never enter bios settings again after initial setup, so as long as the board has the features you want, call it a day. Gamers Nexus and Hardware Unboxed, sure the info about VRM and other features of various other equipment is great and all, but unlikely to affect the vast majority (including gamers).

    Find stuff that has good performance/$$$ value. Buy it, save some cash, run a good rig for years that was cheap. Rinse and repeat.
    To reiterate this, I am running an i7 from 2012 but my graphics card is a 1050Ti and it runs most games fine. However if budget is a real issue how are you going to afford the games themselves?

    Surely you can just wait a few weeks to save some $$ and in the mean time play the ever popular steam game "Among US" on your phone

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonytiger55 View Post
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    Thanks for the detailed response Mitsu. I appreciate it.
    I can wait(I don't want to). I wont deny but it is incredibly frustrating. I have been off sick for the last two weeks and Im going nutts. I don't want to be non PC/gaming coming this November/ xmas.
    I open this up for discussion. I guess my position is at what point does one do a technology cut off and buy? I remember having this discussion back in 1998 when I got my first PC for university. I had that thing running till 2007.
    No problem I hope I am helping.

    I know its super frustrating, but if you buy something now you will be happy for a few days until you see what gets announced, then you will just wish you had waited. You could look into a game streaming service like GeforceNow or Stadia to tide you over and eliminate the current hardware limitations, but I realize that isn't ideal.

    The best time to buy PC gear from a value/longevity standpoint is typically immediately after a huge generational leap, because you get the biggest possible uplift from the prior generation, and the next update you know will only be incremental so upgrading then won't provide you with nearly as much value. In the PC tech world, that's about as much time as you can guarantee yourself so we're coming up on a best case scenario. This usually means an architecture change or process node change (i.e. 14nm --> 7nm or whatever). Here you are getting a particularly large architecture update compared to Ryzen 3000/Zen2. Zen 3 isn't getting a node shrink (Zen 2 was already on 7nm) but it will be built on the updated 7nm+ node so there is still some improvement there too. On top of all this, Nvidia also did the same thing this year (biggest generational update since 2004) so you are primed and ready for the best time to buy a full PC in a very long time with coinciding generational leaps on both the PC and GPU front. Even more, PCI 4.0 SSDs are becoming more mainstream which you can take advantage with AMD, though depending on what you do you won't notice a difference. At least you'll have the slot for future compatibility.


    Quote Originally Posted by tonytiger55;4906987I
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    was planning to get something earlier this year, laptop vs PC build. Then prices went wonky. .
    There is even a video online that I watched today. It was posted four months ago and it was a video talking aboyt not to buy as prices are high.
    Now finally I got some put together for specs after watching got knows how many boring tech videos. Then there is a CPU jump coming October 8th. Rumours for release end of October or early next year. Does one wait till then..? But then what about cost? Then ones has cyber monday coming (Nov 30th). So when does one cut off?
    I have watched videos on the increased cores etc. But by the time that is really utilized, would one not be buying a new PC at that point as there would be something else out by then?
    The Ryzen 5000 stuff should all be released at the same MSRPs as Ryzen 3000 (on their launch day) for the equivalent part.

    I wouldn't hold out on Black Friday / Cyber Monday too much. 99% of those deals aren't even deals, they just manipulate the MSRP to make it look like discounts are higher. You might find the odd thing on sale but I would not wait for that personally, especially if you're this excited to get something done.

    Core utilization depends on the game or the application. Some games like cores, some only use one. Most creative applications use multiple cores. Games are more and more adding multi-core support, and adding cores lets you do other stuff while gaming such as running a download in the background, streaming, listening to music, etc. without any slowdown. There is no real downside these days, and if you're looking at the 6c/12t products, that's right in the sweet spot for value. Core utilization is only going to go up as things mature.

    Quote Originally Posted by tonytiger55 View Post
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    The other question I have is, when there is a tech jump. With the lag time in game/software development. Is that increase in power really getting used right away?
    At Memx the sales rep did not advise overclocking as the gains are only 2%. Is he correct? I dont get how this got so complicated. The memx sale for some of those prices end October 1st.
    If anyone can add to this discussion I'd be grateful as Im finding non of the online tech videos answering these questions. A lot of them talk about spec but dont really provide anything in applied real world applications.
    You should see most of the gains immediately (early leaked benchmarks are already showing this), and when things are optimized you will probably get another small bump. I wouldn't expect anything too dramatic compared to when you first get it, but it *should* only get better. With graphics cards, sometimes you can see substantial gains with driver updates or game updates if something is really poorly optimized to begin with.

    As for Memory Express, assume everything they tell you is automatically false. What's funny is that the 3600XT you were looking at is actually one of the best overclocking Ryzen CPUs in the whole lineup, he pulled that 2% out of his ass. People are getting reliable OC's at ~4.6GHz on all cores with pretty modest voltage and good temps (base clock is 3.8GHz). Measuring from base, that is over 20%.

    Their employees have told me all sorts of things over the years and they just say whatever might get them the sale. It's really gone sharply downhill from the good ol' days where they had a hole-in-the-wall shop, knowledgeable staff and good prices. They probably told you it wouldn't OC to get you to buy something more expensive. They told me I couldn't run an 8700K stock without water cooling lol. Anything for that commission...

    Quote Originally Posted by tonytiger55 View Post
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    If I had to explain it in car terms it would be this.
    I used to have a end model MK4 Golf GTI. Then the MK5 came out. Was the gain that much better to justify the cost? I did not think so. With the aftermarket stuff and prices I'd say its better to keep the MK4 GTI and boost it to Stage 3.
    So in computing terms is the Ryzen 5000 that much better in applied computing terms and not just specs?
    I don't know how tight your budget is, but the discounts aren't that amazing right now. You would save a bit of money but IMO not proportionate to the performance you would lose by upgrading a matter of weeks before such a significant redesign on both the CPU and GPU fronts. To continue your analogy, in my mind it would be more like going from a MK4 GTI to a MK5 Golf R for only a tiny premium. You are getting two generational leaps (CPU & GPU). In another year where you would simply getting refinements of existing products, then yeah I would just spend a few bucks to flash the ECU for a few more HP

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    Chasing the cutting edge is a fools game. Build something "good" and run it a few years, and don't worry so much.
    Did anyone post the falcon guides? https://www.logicalincrements.com/

    Use that, and PC part picker, and shopbot, and then price-match with MemoryExpress, and you will do really well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tik-Tok View Post
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    I'd be lying if I said I didn't disagree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zechs View Post
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    Gaming isn't cpu limited. Its gpu limited.
    This comment just needs to be qualified that it depends on resolution. 720P/1080P gaming is heavily CPU limited, 1440P much less so, and 4K+ pretty much not at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu3000gt View Post
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    This comment just needs to be qualified that it depends on resolution. 720P/1080P gaming is heavily CPU limited, 1440P much less so, and 4K+ pretty much not at all.
    Most people do not have a 120+hz monitor. So while you are technically correct, once again, to anyone short of a power user, it simply.doesn't matter. Lots of people with 1440p monitors and 4k TVs though. And max settings at 1080p on a modern game will still drag down a system based more.on gpu vs cpu. Powerful gpu is going to give you more consistent performance, which is really what any casual should be concerned about.

    So unless he is a pro rocket league player, cpu is irrelevant. No difference going from a oc'd 4670k to a 3600, but certainly a performance step with a better gpu.

    Another thing you are forgetting in telling him to wait, is availability. There won't be any for the products you suggest, just like there isn't right now for ampere, and just like there wasn't earlier this year for ryzen cpus, memory, and boards.

    I don't see any of the coming announcements to be any different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zechs View Post
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    Most people do not have a 120+hz monitor. So while you are technically correct, once again, to anyone short of a power user, it simply.doesn't matter. Lots of people with 1440p monitors and 4k TVs though. And max settings at 1080p on a modern game will still drag down a system based more.on gpu vs cpu. Powerful gpu is going to give you more consistent performance, which is really what any casual should be concerned about.

    So unless he is a pro rocket league player, cpu is irrelevant. No difference going from a oc'd 4670k to a 3600, but certainly a performance step with a better gpu.

    Another thing you are forgetting in telling him to wait, is availability. There won't be any for the products you suggest, just like there isn't right now for ampere, and just like there wasn't earlier this year for ryzen cpus, memory, and boards.

    I don't see any of the coming announcements to be any different.

    Can you share your source for monitor refresh rate popularity statistics? According to recent Steam surveys, only about 10% of their client base are gaming above 1080P, and I would bet a lot of those people have chosen to stay at such low resolutions because they are above 60Hz. Higher refresh rate 1080P monitors are dirt cheap and available to virtually anyone at this point. I think you might be underestimating the amount of gamers who have chosen to go beyond 60Hz as it is so accessible these days but if you have a source that shows otherwise I would be curious to see it. The few surveys I have seen are littered with user complaints saying the software is reporting the incorrect refresh rate as it seems to just grab the desktop refresh rate of 60Hz.

    As for future availability, I am not sure how you can be so sure about something that nobody could possibly know. All we really know for sure is the launch dates, and that AMD has promised to not have the same issues as Nvidia on launch, so hopefully that ends up being true. So you're right, I didn't mention something nobody could possibly have reliable information on at this time. What I can say for sure is I built a few Ryzen-based gaming PCs for people earlier this year and had zero issues sourcing any of the parts.

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    Thats a good point. I have two old Dell monitors right now. Im going to need two new monitors after the build. But that is a discussion for later as I can't type right now, I just ate chicken fingers and fries from Costco and I am regretting my decision as the food festers inside of me.

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    You should totally build your PC now. Greasy fingers are a good insulator.

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    Like said above wait!!!! lol

    Worst case the new AMD cpu is $$$$ and you get a 3 series for cheap. Best case and most probable new cpu is same price and you get something far superior.

    The last few months have been a terrible time to build a pc because all the old stuff is not cheap and the new stuff is right around the corner for the same price (or less).

    EDIT

    Also for 350 you might be able to swing a solid deal for a 2 series gpu if you hold out. Ive seen 2070 supers for that price used. im sure once prices drop for amd gpu's its gonna lower used market and new last gen (20 series) even more.
    Last edited by scboss; 10-02-2020 at 12:30 AM.
    IG:scboss

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    NZXT H510 on sale for $85. Good case.
    https://www.amazon.ca/NZXT-H510-Comp...s%2C189&sr=8-2

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Rural_Juror View Post
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    NZXT H510 on sale for $85. Good case.
    https://www.amazon.ca/NZXT-H510-Comp...s%2C189&sr=8-2
    Okay i'll bite, thanks

    click for larger version
    » Click image for larger version
    Originally posted by beemerm3
    so if we only seen 5 % of the oceans why not drain them or somethin lol or can u even transfer water from one ocean to another??? think of all the stuff u'd find treasures n eerything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kobe View Post
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    Okay i'll bite, thanks

    click for larger version
    » Click image for larger version
    There was a 750w Seasonic Semi Modular Gold for $135 earlier today too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Rural_Juror View Post
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    There was a 750w Seasonic Semi Modular Gold for $135 earlier today too.
    Ahh Already purchased a 750w power supply a couple weeks ago for like $190

    Going to use it all in the new PC I build, just need a motherboard and processor still.

    Going to wait till prime days or the new models..
    Originally posted by beemerm3
    so if we only seen 5 % of the oceans why not drain them or somethin lol or can u even transfer water from one ocean to another??? think of all the stuff u'd find treasures n eerything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kobe View Post
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    Ahh Already purchased a 750w power supply a couple weeks ago for like $190

    Going to use it all in the new PC I build, just need a motherboard and processor still.

    Going to wait till prime days or the new models..
    What are you building?(Specs, budget?)

    17jfrbi8pbr51.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonytiger55 View Post
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    What are you building?(Specs, budget?)
    Hahaha I don't know I got all of this so far

    click for larger version
    » Click image for larger version

    I'll wait for prime days or for a sale for the CPU/Motherboard but prob just buy the 3900x so I don't have to worry about it for a few years again..

    Then might sell the setup I currently got or just keep it, undecided about that still.. Budget I guess under $1,000 Max more for the CPU/Motherboard.
    Originally posted by beemerm3
    so if we only seen 5 % of the oceans why not drain them or somethin lol or can u even transfer water from one ocean to another??? think of all the stuff u'd find treasures n eerything.

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