Calgary real estate prospects

[pheoxs]

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Exactly. Cheaper (but nice looking) flooring, cabinets, counter tops, fixtures... Lipstick on a pig.

Also bear in mind that $300 psf is a healthy amount for high end, new construction.

Yeah thats what I was thinking. Why do a 300k reno when you could just do a 400k infill and sell for way more

[Xtrema]

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Yeah thats what I was thinking. Why do a 300k reno when you could just do a 400k infill and sell for way more

The investor may not be liquid enough. You can't tear it down if you have a mortgage. If you paid off all $600K, then you still need another $400k and may be 1 year time to get new one built on top. Unless you have access to HELOC to cover, lending on that won't be cheap.

[ercchry]

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The investor may not be liquid enough. You can't tear it down if you have a mortgage. If you paid off all $600K, then you still need another $400k and may be 1 year time to get new one built on top. Unless you have access to HELOC to cover, lending on that won't be cheap.

There are ways... essentially 20%-25% of completed project in capital. but yeah not the cheapest money... especially over that duration. But at least with a draw you will be paying less than the interest if you had the lump sum upfront

[The_Rural_Juror]

Aren't builders all rich enough to pay cash?

[ercchry]

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Aren't builders all rich enough to pay cash?

1st rule of developing... use Max Boost’s cash

[RX_EVOLV]

Definitly a flip job just by looking at the pictures. My guess is they renovated it for $150-200K, adding all the other costs (carrying, realtor, etc..), and trying to make ~$75-100K on this flip. No chance this will sell at anything even > $800K imo.

[bjstare]

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Also bear in mind that $300 psf is an average amount for new construction.

Ftfy

[Neil4Speed]

Sorry guys, I should have clarified... of course it wouldn't be 300k, otherwise would be losing money after fees etc.

Really appreciate the feedback you guys provided. Sounds like ~$175/sq. ft reno. Wonder what it will end up with in the end.

[you&me]

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Ftfy

Fixed what? Where are you getting $300 as an "average"?

If you're building custom (forget about even renovating), $300 psf has always got you a really good product in Calgary and more so in the current environment. This is not to be confused with builder profit built into a spec home...

[pheoxs]

I always wondered, when people say 300$/sq ft, is that the building foot print? the square footage in a real estate listing? or total liveable space?

Like a 1500sq ft two storey house (say 800 main floor + 700 second floor + 600 basement) .... would that be 450k? or would you count the basement?

I know its a rough estimate but curious.

[bjstare]

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Fixed what? Where are you getting $300 as an "average"?

If you're building custom (forget about even renovating), $300 psf has always got you a really good product in Calgary and more so in the current environment. This is not to be confused with builder profit built into a spec home...

I was just trying to point out that a custom "high end" home is on the order of $600-$1000/ft (my family owns a business that builds these houses, and that's the range their new builds are in). $300/ft will get you a good new build, but it wouldn't be high end.

And yes, I'm being pedantic

edit: sorry, you might be referring to the cost to the builder. I'm not as in touch with that, I was talking about cost to the customer. My bad. One thing I'll say, is the cost is still higher than $300, I know the margins are not 100%

[The_Rural_Juror]

I was told that $300/sq ft above ground is peasant quality.

[SKR]

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I was told that $300/sq ft above ground is peasant quality.

I was told that it's pleasant quality.

[you&me]

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I was just trying to point out that a custom "high end" home is on the order of $600-$1000/ft (my family owns a business that builds these houses, and that's the range their new builds are in). $300/ft will get you a good new build, but it wouldn't be high end.

And yes, I'm being pedantic

edit: sorry, you might be referring to the cost to the builder. I'm not as in touch with that, I was talking about cost to the customer. My bad. One thing I'll say, is the cost is still higher than $300, I know the margins are not 100%

Yeah, we're kind of talking about two different things... First of all, this all stemmed from comment about the reno cost in Huntington (?) being ~$300/ft... Whatever your definition of high end and opinion of what $300/ft will get you, I think we can all agree that that reno is not it

[Power_Of_Rotary]

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Yeah, we're kind of talking about two different things... First of all, this all stemmed from comment about the reno cost in Huntington (?) being ~$300/ft... Whatever your definition of high end and opinion of what $300/ft will get you, I think we can all agree that that reno is not it

Lets not get hung up on renovation/rebuild cost. How I see it, these old houses are not worth much. It is the land it is sitting on that matters.

Like I said, I like these old lots because of the flexibility and size. Therefore, I am looking at what my options are to fulfill this Lot preference. From what I see, inner city is not possible. Older and further communities can meet this preference, however, the pricing seems a bit unreasonable. That is why I am opening my scope to outside Calgary city limits. 500k+ for an old house with a large lot in an old community that is not "inner city", such as the aforementioned huntington, seems unreasonable.

I want to get everyone view on the land/lot value first. Simply put, where and how do we benchmark land value in Calgary? Is it worth exploring outside City limits?

[ExtraSlow]

You can't really separate land value from location. And you can't really say the house on the land is worth $0 unless you know the neighborhood and house condition.

Sure you'll get cheaper land in less desirable places, like outside of the city, but after building you "nice" house, then IT'S value is determined more by location than by the house itself.

It's kind of a circular argument, I realize. However, I'm of the opinion that there's no "cheat code" to getting "better value".

[Power_Of_Rotary]

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You can't really separate land value from location. And you can't really say the house on the land is worth $0 unless you know the neighborhood and house condition.

Sure you'll get cheaper land in less desirable places, like outside of the city, but after building you "nice" house, then IT'S value is determined more by location than by the house itself.

It's kind of a circular argument, I realize. However, I'm of the opinion that there's no "cheat code" to getting "better value".

Im not saying 0 value for the house or location. I am trying to benchmark to access the lot and house value separately.

[RX_EVOLV]

We always look at lot and house value separately, and we always look at land cost first in our preferred area before we look at house cost. Our process is we would first set our budget, then decide which community we want, and see if we have enough money left after land value to get the house that we like. If not, then we adjust the equation.

For my first house I really wanted inner city. First choice Rosedale but way out of my budget for land value alone, so I picked the next community (Mount Pleasant) because I can get a smaller lot for less $. Even with that, I didn't have alot of budget left for the house. So it was either moving further out to free up more budget for a nicer house, or rough it out in an old house. I ended up roughing it out in a 1912 century home on an infill lot that needed a bit of TLC to stay in Mount Pleasant. The budget there was 85%land/15% house. Really glad I made that choice.

For the house after it was the opposite. By then I was expecting a family and we needed a newer/bigger house, as well as a proper backyard. So instead of 85%/15%, it was 50%/50%. Ended up moving 2 communities north but for a 60' lot and a renovated 50s' 4-level split.

[zechs]

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Im not saying 0 value for the house or location. I am trying to benchmark to access the lot and house value separately.

Well, a pretty simplistic way to go about it would be to benchmark a similiar spec'd new build further out and compare it to properties closer to downtown.

That gives you a rough idea how much the land value has increased vs house worth, as the building does in theory still have some value no matter how old (unless we are talking pre-1960 houses, that about the point where the house itself starts to have actual value degradation IMO). It costs what it costs to put up an actual structure and from what I've seen, besides labour rates going down (and right this very minute, wood prices having gone up, but should calm down within a year), I haven't seen a huge drop in the cost (materials + labour) to physically put up a house on a lot in the past 5 years.

I once read an interesting article on Bloomberg that made the case that a 10 minute shorter work commute is worth $100k in property value in big cities, so you could use that as a rule of thumb as well. Which highlights what slow was saying, both land and the building itself are fairly tied together. Only way to compare actual land value is if someone knocks down a property and for some reason sold the bare land.

[vengie]

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1st rule of developing... use Max Boost’s cash

Can't believe this hasn't received more attention.

LOL!