AT M+S or Winter Tires???

[dirtsniffer]

I don't know I've been in a car with some shit China.com winter tires and they were fucking terrible

[tirebob]

Studded winters always on the wifes SUV and I always ran studded winter on my own too but now run Duratracs on my F150 as I do so many KM's (like 60,000 a year) I like the durability factory of the Durtaracs and they do really quite well in severe conditions so long as you aren't a complete idiot behind the wheel.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

If I drove my 4WD in the winter/ice a lot, I'd just run Duratracs year-round.

[ExtraSlow]

May as well ask here, so once upon a time I had a set of the Goodyear all-terrain adventure w/Kevlar and I loved them for winter weather. I thought they were great. Back then I drove in the winter quite a bit. Now that happens to be what came from the factory on my new truck.
I'm older now, can afford real winters, but I actually drove a lot less. There's lots of weeks where my truck won't move 50km through the winter.
So junking tires that I think will be "pretty good" for tires that might be only a little better seems crazy.

Not at all interested in studded tires. Sound drives me insane.

[SKR]

The trouble with winter tires is that they're all pizza slicers. I'm living that 305 life and don't want to step down to a 275.

[JfuckinC]

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The trouble with winter tires is that they're all pizza slicers. I'm living that 305 life and don't want to step down to a 275.

lol every winter I cry a little when I bump down to my winters

[ExtraSlow]

Who's that dude selling 255's on here?

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

235/85/16 all the things.

[ExtraSlow]

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235/85/16 all the things.

My favourite truck ever had those.

[Tik-Tok]

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Who's that dude selling 255's on here?

Me. If you buy them, I'll de-stud them for you

[ExtraSlow]

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Me. If you buy them, I'll de-stud them for you

Hmmmmmm.

[nobb]

Seeing alot of mentions for the Duratracs and although they were pretty excellent the first season or two, I found that the winter performance degrades significantly after that. They're not very good on icy surfaces as they aren't siped that aggressively. I found the Cooper Discoverer AT series to handle the winter much better since they have a softer compound and more siping. Probably 80-90% the performance of a real winter tire while still being classified as an all season.

[msommers]

Had duractracs and eventually ponied up for some Hakkas. A decision I wish I had made sooner. Studs rule

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

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Seeing alot of mentions for the Duratracs and although they were pretty excellent the first season or two, I found that the winter performance degrades significantly after that. They're not very good on icy surfaces as they aren't siped that aggressively. I found the Cooper Discoverer AT series to handle the winter much better since they have a softer compound and more siping. Probably 80-90% the performance of a real winter tire while still being classified as an all season.

That’s because the sipes on Duratracs only go 30-50% down the tread blocks. A nice hot knife every fall can fix that.

[nobb]

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That’s because the sipes on Duratracs only go 30-50% down the tread blocks. A nice hot knife every fall can fix that.

All my sipes are showing and the tire is about 70%. The Duratracs only have 2 sipes per block while the Coopers and any real winter tire is 4+. They're a good rugged summer tire, but unless they get studded they're not much better than any other all season tire being used in the winter.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

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All my sipes are showing and the tire is about 70%. The Duratracs only have 2 sipes per block while the Coopers and any real winter tire is 4+. They're a good rugged summer tire, but unless they get studded they're not much better than any other all season tire being used in the winter.

This all comes down to useage. On a HD truck Duratracs work quite well I find, extra weight helps a lot. Like Bob says there’s no perfect tire for every vehicle driver and situation. I wouldn’t even give the Coopers a second look for my truck and situation.

I tried General Grabber A/TX the past 36k on my truck and was very happy with grip but very unhappy with longevity. They will be pretty much bald at 40k km.

[tirebob]

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All my sipes are showing and the tire is about 70%. The Duratracs only have 2 sipes per block while the Coopers and any real winter tire is 4+. They're a good rugged summer tire, but unless they get studded they're not much better than any other all season tire being used in the winter.

You can't make a blanket statement like that man, sorry. First, sipes are only one aspect of a tires performance in winter. Rubber compounding is actually the biggest factor because without it the rubber grows firmer the deeper the cold gets to the point your sipes no longer open up and then they are useless not matter how many you have in a tire, and whether you realize it or not, the Duratrac actually does have far larger temperature range than the Coopper AT "series". Also, in deep snow the larger tread voids with a tire like the Duratrac will shovel more snow out of the way of the tread surface than a tire with a tighter pattern and high sipe density.

That isn't to say it is the right tire or the wrong tire generically (the Cooper or the Goodyear or any of them). It is always a matter of assessing the specific properties in the products and comparing them to where and how you drive and the behaviours that you specifically find most important because those vary for everybody which is why one single product is not simply better or worse. It is just different.

People all have different experiences as is proven right here. While one may not have impressed you as much as the other, there are many factors that come into play that people don't take into consideration when they are thinking back, like was the two winters you found them decent were maybe milder temperatures where the third winter you says you found them more slippery was a colder, icier winter (I am just using an example for effect and not claiming this was what you experienced)? If you do a crazy amount of driving KM's you might be pissed right off if you rip a set of tires off in a single season no matter how sticky it feels so finding one that works well enough to satisfy your needs but is more durable might be the right answer, while someone like my Las Angeles born and bred wife will not even attempt to leave the house in winter if she is not driving on 4 super aggressive studded tires and she doesn't care about the road noise or squishy handling feel.

Everyone is different is the point and no one product is the answer for everyone.

[Darell_n]

I run M+S snowflake tires solely because I'm too lazy to swap heavy 20" truck tires myself twice a year. Just keep them on forever. On the car I have a second set of wheels with Nokian winters that I swap myself. Ideally I would have a second set of studded winters for every vehicle.

[r3ccOs]

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You can't make a blanket statement like that man, sorry. First, sipes are only one aspect of a tires performance in winter. Rubber compounding is actually the biggest factor because without it the rubber grows firmer the deeper the cold gets to the point your sipes no longer open up and then they are useless not matter how many you have in a tire, and whether you realize it or not, the Duratrac actually does have far larger temperature range than the Coopper AT "series". Also, in deep snow the larger tread voids with a tire like the Duratrac will shovel more snow out of the way of the tread surface than a tire with a tighter pattern and high sipe density.

That isn't to say it is the right tire or the wrong tire generically (the Cooper or the Goodyear or any of them). It is always a matter of assessing the specific properties in the products and comparing them to where and how you drive and the behaviours that you specifically find most important because those vary for everybody which is why one single product is not simply better or worse. It is just different.

People all have different experiences as is proven right here. While one may not have impressed you as much as the other, there are many factors that come into play that people don't take into consideration when they are thinking back, like was the two winters you found them decent were maybe milder temperatures where the third winter you says you found them more slippery was a colder, icier winter (I am just using an example for effect and not claiming this was what you experienced)? If you do a crazy amount of driving KM's you might be pissed right off if you rip a set of tires off in a single season no matter how sticky it feels so finding one that works well enough to satisfy your needs but is more durable might be the right answer, while someone like my Las Angeles born and bred wife will not even attempt to leave the house in winter if she is not driving on 4 super aggressive studded tires and she doesn't care about the road noise or squishy handling feel.

Everyone is different is the point and no one product is the answer for everyone.

This

I actually have a set of AT/W's and I was never happy with its performance. It looked like a siped blocky tread pattern, that I had hoped, but wasn't good at anything.

It is FAR from a Winter tire, though IMO it did perform better on-road than my studded Duratac tires

I had better overall performance from Cooper M/S for Winter onroad/offroad performance than I did from the AT/W

Now that I run Nokian Hakka R3 - there is absolutely no comparison

[ExtraSlow]

Good point made above that vehicle weight totally changes tire feel. Just because some unibidy SUV's and half ton trucks use the same tire sizes doesn't mean the same tires will be best. Particularly if your half ton has heavy shit like a topper, or tools in it. Can be 1500lbs heavier than the SUV easily.