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Thread: AHS wildcat strike

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    Income is for suckers
    sup sugar daddy


    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    The benefit of masks is not known at this time. But we do know it is some non-trivial amount more than zero.

    We also know that the cost of mask use is, essentially, zero.

    So the cost:benefit of mask use is approaching infinity. I'll take that every time. And every time I see someone without a mask, I think they are stupid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flipstah View Post
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    sup sugar daddy
    Found the sucker. Hopefully, that skill translates into income

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    .
    Last edited by 01RedDX; 12-07-2020 at 10:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by never View Post
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    If the support jobs are cut at AHS, are they really lost? Presumably, the private companies that get the contracts to cover the additional work would have to staff up? Or do these companies have enough capacity?
    It's going to the the same people working the same jobs at market rate +30-40% for the pimps. Pimps may lower the margin for multi-year deal with AHS to win the contract.

    Usually this is how it will play out:

    AHS employee is doing a job for $22/hr, it will cost AHS around $30/hr to maintain that employee but a pimp may offer AHS the same SLA for $25/hr and pay the employee around $15-$17/hr. So AHS effectively saves 15% is cost and get the parade that around as a win.

    Then overtime, SLA will slip because nobody want to deal with that shit for that price and either TFW are needed to continue to fill those role at those rates or they ask AHS for increases to offset that cost to maintain SLA AHS wants.

    Once 3-5 years in, relationship are established and switching provider would be a lot harder unless they really failed their SLAs, prices start to go up. So AHS will reduce SLAs further to keep cost down. In the meantime, a lot of time is spend arguing between AHS and contract partner about what SLAs are met and what isn't for either party to gain upper hand on re-negotiation.

    Rinse and repeat until a management/politician will run on platform that current way is not working and insource again.

    I have seen inefficiency on both union system and market system that end of the day they are pretty much the same. Market system may bring some saving when you deal with high end resources but they rarely bring much to the table on the bottom end. And switching away from unioned staff will bring flexibility, while it may bring future liability down in term of severance and pension, monetary saving if any could be had is always short lived and usually cost more over time.

    TLDR, you are basically paying more for the option to get rid of people easier.
    Last edited by Xtrema; 10-27-2020 at 10:47 AM.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSlow View Post
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    I'm lucky that the public sector employee in my home is well treated and makes better compensation than comparable private sector jobs. Haven't done wage comparisons of any other positions.
    My wife is with these unions. She's well paid, loves her job. She's well compensated so when she sees everyone trashing our govt over a lack of pay raises she shakes her head.

    She has to share offices with some big union crazies that are super tight with Notley. The stuff she sees and hears is insane. She has to bite her lip and keep her mouth shut at work. Your job as part of the union is to hate the ucp at all costs. Its not worth sharing an opposing view while at work.

    The amount of phone calls and emails she gets from the union are insane. She had 3 phone calls from the union yesterday and she's on maternity leave right now.

    I could see my wife crossing the picket line if it came to her area of work striking.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by g-m View Post
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    That's because we pay more per capita than any other province for health care and we have worse service. I'm sorry but something needs to change and it's going to piss off some people currently riding the gravy train. Oh but think of the poor workers!

    No sympathy
    I saw the BC numbers for equivalent cost of care and its about 50% higher here (per patient in a given age category) than in BC - esp in the older brackets.

    No one 'deserves' anything - the moment I read that I hear entitlement. When I was at Air Canada in the early 2000s, we had career bag smashers/pot smokers puling in 25$ an hour smashing wheels off suit cases.

    As skilled labour, seeing the airline in trouble financially back then, that bothered us IAMAW union members, that CUPE would get such bargaining power to allow unskilled labour to trump skilled labour, and cost the airline millions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    Yes
    Would you be ok if K-Bro charged $22.30/hr, paid their workers $17.30/hr and pocketed the $5/hr as profit? That’s what is going to happen. There will be no savings. Kenney’s buddies are going to line their pockets.
    War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dino_martini View Post
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    Would you be ok if K-Bro charged $22.30/hr, paid their workers $17.30/hr and pocketed the $5/hr as profit? That’s what is going to happen. There will be no savings. Kenney’s buddies are going to line their pockets.
    Even in your example, there would be savings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dino_martini View Post
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    Would you be ok if K-Bro charged $22.30/hr, paid their workers $17.30/hr and pocketed the $5/hr as profit? That’s what is going to happen. There will be no savings. Kenney’s buddies are going to line their pockets.
    If it costs the health system less money then it’s a net plus for everyone, well everyone who pays taxes anyway. If it saves even 1 cent I’m for it.

    If “Kenney’s Buddies” find a way to cut costs (should be a pretty easy task compared to the incompetence of AHS) and want to pocket the difference that’s fine by me.

    Aside from that the entire premise of your statement is just false, there is no arguing with Kenney Derangement Syndrome.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dino_martini View Post
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    Would you be ok if K-Bro charged $22.30/hr, paid their workers $17.30/hr and pocketed the $5/hr as profit? That’s what is going to happen. There will be no savings. Kenney’s buddies are going to line their pockets.
    As sited my sample above, AHS WILL save money even if only initially. Because everyone will be fired if it doesn't.

    The question is does the money saved improves or hurts productivity. That depends on how well the SLAs are crafted when sending out for bids.

    Here's an IT example:

    A place was outsourced and new account set up used to take 3 days ends up taking 3 weeks. IT saving was 40% but now you have company trying to onboard about 50ppl/mth who they are paying and not producing for up to 3 weeks. That's an average of productivity lost of $600K per month.
    Last edited by Xtrema; 10-27-2020 at 01:31 PM.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by dino_martini View Post
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    Would you be ok if K-Bro charged $22.30/hr, paid their workers $17.30/hr and pocketed the $5/hr as profit? That’s what is going to happen. There will be no savings. Kenney’s buddies are going to line their pockets.
    That's not where the cost savings come in. It's actually having efficient workers. Your belief that a union represented provincial employee works at the same rate as a non union, paid for what they do one. AHS management doesn't crack the whip when someone's not producing, think that'll happen in the private sector?

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyL View Post
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    That's not where the cost savings come in. It's actually having efficient workers. Your belief that a union represented provincial employee works at the same rate as a non union, paid for what they do one. AHS management doesn't crack the whip when someone's not producing, think that'll happen in the private sector?
    There will be 0 to no money saved immediately. You are buying flexibility and reducing future pension liability.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xtrema View Post
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    There will be 0 to no money saved immediately. You are buying flexibility and reducing future pension liability.
    Pretty much correct. This is a policy approach, conservatives believe in small government and free market. You put these services out for a 3 or 5 year contract and the lowest bidder wins. Generally speaking it costs similar.

    It does reduce pension liability. It also reduces service disruption due to strike. Contracts have terms of service associated with it. It also has means of cancelling the contract if service is not met. Not to say that it happens that way all the time. No perfect system in my view. Also, want to reduce the level of service to save costs in the future, put it in the contract. Level of service changes with union staff is incredibly more difficult, which speaks to your flexibility.

    The other reason this doesn't always save money is that you need bureaucrats to issue and manage these contracts, not a lot of them, but certainly more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cagare View Post
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    The other reason this doesn't always save money is that you need bureaucrats to issue and manage these contracts, not a lot of them, but certainly more.
    Just thinking about the amount of productivity lost due to meetings I got pulled into to determine if SLAs are missed made my blood boil. I don't miss that part of my career at all.

    And poorly crafted SLAs also means stuff just need to be done but doesn't have to done correctly, adding further productivity lost.
    Last edited by Xtrema; 10-27-2020 at 02:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dino_martini View Post
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    Would you be ok if K-Bro charged $22.30/hr, paid their workers $17.30/hr and pocketed the $5/hr as profit? That’s what is going to happen. There will be no savings. Kenney’s buddies are going to line their pockets.
    Of course I would be fine. Do you have any concept of how business works?
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    As previously mentioned, the strike was organized by AUPE leaders. They were texting their members horrible threats to walk out, or else.
    This isn't a secret - it's not like 100% of their members have kept their text messages secret.
    Yet still we have CBC failing to report that Guy Smith is lying. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...rike-1.5779591

    Why the fuck is the Finance Minister looking into this? Was the Minister of Forestry and Indigenous Drum Circles not available? Do we not have a HEALTH MINISTER?
    Oh, and great job looking to punish the workers! The UCP is bungling this simple issue in ways that demonstrate maximum incompetency.

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    Screenshot_20201029-084104-01.jpg

    17.78-19.39 for food service 1. Posted today...

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyL View Post
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    Screenshot_20201029-084104-01.jpg

    17.78-19.39 for food service 1. Posted today...
    So nearly $20/hr to be a glorified bus boy.
    Gotcha.

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    Probably relevant? What's the cost to the employer (taxpayer) for that $18/hr role after benefits, pension etc? I think rule of thumb in private sector is around 2x salary (if you expect bonuses). Does this role "cost" AHS more or less than $34/hr? That's where a lot of the potential savings for outsourcing comes from.

    And then as a society, what value do we place on this "good union job" vs the presumable worse private sector job for the same task?
    Quote Originally Posted by schurchill39 View Post
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    Oh god, don't get him started.

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    How much does the union get out of that salary?

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