Incomplete transmission rebuild. Wwyd?

[Kloubek]

Well... shit. I never even gave you guys the conclusion... though there is little more to add. It continued to take a bit longer but I eventually paid the man the agreed $4500, he gave me the 1 year warranty on the used one and I walked out the door.

Tranny feels generally perfect. Occasional little unexpected shifts perhaps but nothing I wouldn't expect from an aging platform with 21 ecus all trying to talk to each other.

...and there lies a new problem or two I am looking at as soon as getting it back. First, I can no longer scan all the ECUs I was able to before using a GAP IID tool I purchased. Some show, some don't. I'm having a hell of a time figuring out if there is suddenly something wrong with my OBD connector, bus communication, or what.

Second thing I noticed as soon as I got it back were o2 codes started popping up for post cat and eventually system lean and rich codes too. IID tool shows fuel trims completely imbalanced between banks, and one post-cat o2 sensor showing 10% voltage readings of the other post-cat sensor.

May start a new thread about the latter issue - maybe Beyond mechanics smarter than I can help me figure it out...

[Rocket1k78]

#becauserangerover

[bjstare]

And to think people suggest avoiding those off warranty. I can't imagine why.

[revelations]

Unless you have

a) extended bumper-bumper warranty
b) geek-level knowledge and the space/time to diagnose
c) funds

Definitely stay away.

[Kloubek]

It's not unfair to rag on these vehicles and that most should stay clear. But I do feel that once I figure out these new issues (which suspiciously happened only after the tranny work) that I'll have a reasonably sorted unit. Until it breaks again, anyway.

Like I said before, I am generally ok to do most work myself. Just replaced the front control arms last week. This is what leads me to believe I might be able to handle most of the inherent issues myself. With that said, once it moves into realms I haven't worked with (like fuel trims), it does get a little dicey.

[Misterman]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It's not unfair to rag on these vehicles and that most should stay clear. But I do feel that once I figure out these new issues (which suspiciously happened only after the tranny work) that I'll have a reasonably sorted unit. Until it breaks again, anyway.

Like I said before, I am generally ok to do most work myself. Just replaced the front control arms last week. This is what leads me to believe I might be able to handle most of the inherent issues myself. With that said, once it moves into realms I haven't worked with (like fuel trims), it does get a little dicey.

Well your pre cat O2 sensor plays a big role in determining your fuel trims. And they do have a lifespan. So if you have one that has been compromised, or is just old and not reading great any longer, then a simple replacement could certainly be a potential fix for your fuel trim issue.

I'm not a mechanic who generally just replaces parts to see if that's the problem, but in this case, knowing it's an older vehicle now, I would definitely risk just throwing a part at it. Assuming I had inspected the wiring for any obvious issues like melted sheath or rub through somewhere causing a short.

A post cat sensor is just for catalyst efficiency, it won't change the way the vehicle runs.

If the mileage is up there it couldn't hurt to do a full tune up. Coils and plugs also wear out with time, and doing a vaccum leak check on the intake system can also reveal some small issues that affect fuel trim.

[Kloubek]

Thanks. It starts with pre cat lean codes for both banks (p0171 and p0174) and adds post cat codes eventually too. P2098, P2097. Oddly, one is rich and the other lean, but since one isn't reading proper voltage anyway I'm not surprised. I notice the fuel trims go to almost 0 from around the typical +5 or 6 when I rev. Usually this indicates a vacuum leak as far as I know, but I can't find one using a couple different methods.

Fuel pressure seems solid, so I don't think its a fuel delivery issue, and because its on both banks I don't think it is a plug,injector or coil issue either. Intake seems sealed, filter is good, and maf was cleaned.

Tomorrow morning I go in for an alignment after replacing the front control arms, and I'm going to get them to check for any pre-cat exhaust leaks just to rule that out. If they have time I'll see if they can do a smoke test or something to rule out the vacuum leak I still believe it might be.

With all this said, I wouldn't be surprised to learn of some sort of exhaust manifold leak or something. I know they removed the exhaust during the tranny work, and although I didn't have much experience with the vehicle prior to the tranny replacement, I believe it would have thrown a code in that short time if there were any issues prior to the tranny work. I'm also considering the throttle body, which are known to fail earlier than expected, or perhaps just needs a good clean. Even that is a bigger than normal job, as it sits at the back of the engine and the supercharger duct needs to be removed first.

[Kloubek]

So I just got back from Minute Muffler on 32nd. Alignment was fixed in the front, but now I have been told the rear toe adjustors are seized so I need to get that taken care of. Is half a degree out of spec really a big deal?

The shop checked both the exhaust as well as vacuum, and could find no leaks.

Not really sure what is left that could throw lean codes on both banks except the throttle body. Given it's a half-day job (for me) and some $400 for a new part, I think I might wait on that. Alternatively, I might disassemble the supercharger intake tube to gain access to the throttle body and maybe try to give it a clean. Bet it's never been done before...

[ThePenIsMightier]

I agree with Misterman.
Another time I was throwing similar codes it was on the accordion rubber "intake tube" between the air filter and the manifold. It had a crack.
Not sure if that's a possibility in your case

[Kloubek]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I agree with Misterman.
Another time I was throwing similar codes it was on the accordion rubber "intake tube" between the air filter and the manifold. It had a crack.
Not sure if that's a possibility in your case

Nope. According to Minute Muffler, no intake or exhaust leaks. Because its on both banks and o2 operation seems fine I don't think its a sensor issue, nor fuel injector, plug, or coil issue, again due to both banks as well as no accompanying codes. And because fuel pressure is good, I'm thinking air measurement. Guessing a messed up MAF (even though I cleaned it) or a messed up throttle body... either dirty, or failing. I don't like throwing parts at a vehicle (especially while unemployed) but I did purchase a new MAF online yesterday, figuring I can just resell it as new if it doesn't help and lose very little money in the process. Today or tomorrow I might get on top of the engine, remove the metal supercharger intake tube and clean the TB.

Overall, the vehicle runs great with lots of power, and fuel economy is as expected. Seems to be intermittent, which is what is making it so hard to track down.

Maybe I should have listened to all of you. Lol.

[never]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Nope. According to Minute Muffler, no intake or exhaust leaks. Because its on both banks and o2 operation seems fine I don't think its a sensor issue, nor fuel injector, plug, or coil issue, again due to both banks as well as no accompanying codes. And because fuel pressure is good, I'm thinking air measurement. Guessing a messed up MAF (even though I cleaned it) or a messed up throttle body... either dirty, or failing. I don't like throwing parts at a vehicle (especially while unemployed) but I did purchase a new MAF online yesterday, figuring I can just resell it as new if it doesn't help and lose very little money in the process. Today or tomorrow I might get on top of the engine, remove the metal supercharger intake tube and clean the TB.

Overall, the vehicle runs great with lots of power, and fuel economy is as expected. Seems to be intermittent, which is what is making it so hard to track down.

Maybe I should have listened to all of you. Lol.

Did you check all of the O2 harness for damage? Or all of the O2 harness connectors for being seated properly? That stuff likely had to come out to do the trans so something not completely plugged in or damaged could be causing issues.

[Darell_n]

Time for LS swap. Or Hellcat it, I think that's the correct answer this month.

[Kloubek]

The 4.2 is actually a sweet engine and generally quite reliable. (Super reliable for Rover) I wanna keep it. Though a 6 2 supercharged Hemi does sound acceptable...

So I took a look at the MAF again, and it turns out there were two hidden hot wires way up in the assembly I hadn't cleaned yet. Cleaned them up, and cleaned the throttle body which was in pretty good shape anyway. It takes a day or so for codes to come back so my fingers are (not optimistically) crossed it did something.

As for pre-cat o2 sensors, its almost impossible for them to fail on the same day so again, due to both banks being wacky I'm still thinking an air issue. (Plus, readings seem in spec). I do need to find out why a POST o2 is losing signal though. Brand new and still having issues, but I'm pretty sure post-cats make zero difference to fuel mixture.

[ThePenIsMightier]

Minute Muffler is only going to check for leaks at joints (if at all) and not consider failures. Intake leak should still be on the table.
Much like you, I cleaned the shit out of my MAF when I was suffering slightly similar codes. It was so incredibly sorry, I have no idea how the car ran... Embarrassing.

[Tik-Tok]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

. Until it breaks again, anyway.

Lol, and that's the problem. I was seriously looking into buying one because their so cheap, but coincidentally I sold a set of rims to one of the service guys at TRS. I asked about their reliability, and the guy told me "Oh they aren't that bad, you probably average about $3g a year in maintenance...". Yeahhhh, I went through that with my Audi allroad. Never again.

Back on topic though, of you haven't already, check the O2 sensors themselves. Even though they are master tabbed there's still a chance they got switched, or physically damaged, or too many washers/not enough washers etc.

[riander5]

Didn't you say in the mental health thread you're 2-3 months from being completely out of money? Jesus... I'd be fire sale-ing this thing. Good luck

[flipstah]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Didn't you say in the mental health thread you're 2-3 months from being completely out of money? Jesus... I'd be fire sale-ing this thing. Good luck

Any pics?

EDIT: Oh wait it's the 2006-2010 model. Good luck man! Sounds like typical Land Rover stuff to me.

[Kloubek]

Yeah, right now is not the time to spending lots on repairs. That's why I continue to try to fix it myself.

Tiktok, what does "master tabbed" mean? Everyone is harping on the o2 sensors but again, 2 banks of issues would mean 2 sensors dying at the exact same time. Seems highly unlikely and a recipe for spending 2x$80 for nothing. I gotta get under there today to see why the post-cat sensor is tapping out anyway so I'll take a gander at the pre-cats at the same time...

[Tik-Tok]

The upstream and downstream o2 sensors could easily be physically swapped, and you'd see o2 errors. The only thing stopping it is the electrical connectors have tabs so you can only plug the upstream sensor to the upstream wire connector. If the connector tabs are busted they could be swapped, or maybe if the wire lengths are such that the upstream sensor could reach the downstream bung, and vice versa, they could be swapped. Or if they are swapped from left to right, etc.

Edit: this is all unlikely, but a possibility. Most harnesses are such that you can't fuck it up, but I did have one car that the upstream sensors could be plugged into the opposite side if I really wanted to.

Also, it's pretty easy to not pay attention to where the wires sit when it's installed, and are too close to the exhaust and melt through.