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    Default Incomplete transmission rebuild. Wwyd?

    So, I picked up a used Range Rover supercharged with a hooped transmission recently. Debated between a used unit, a rebuild, or a reman unit. Reman was out of my price range, and decided that the warranty of a rebuilt was the way to go, although it was about 2g more than a used unit.

    Took a while to find a shop that was willing to work on a ZF. Found a couple and decided on one.

    First issue: He's had it for 6 weeks. He claims he thought it was just a flip vehicle for me and there was no rush. (I never told him that. I did say it wasn't a huge rush as I had my Jeep, but I was in the process of selling it to pay for the rebuild and didn't think it would take more than a week or two to rebuild). So now, 6 weeks later, I don't have a car I can drive in the winter. Good thing I'm currently without a job or this would be even more complicated.

    A week ago he said the rebuild was done, but he was having difficulty with intermittent hard shifts coming to a light gearing down from 2nd to 1st. He suggested we add a shift kit for an extra $350. Ok. He installed it, and called this morning to say it is still doing it. Hes out of ideas on this transmission.

    He said there is a used unit not too far away he wanted to drop in instead. Said he would not charge me anything extra and would eat all the failed rebuild costs himself.

    Am I wrong in thinking that is not my problem? I took my vehicle to him to get the tranny rebuilt. He couldn't rebuild it properly for whatever reason. IMO, I don't owe him a thing. Had I went straight for a used unit it would have been far less (about 1.5g to 2g less) from the beginning. Why am I paying rebuild costs for a used unit now, probably with no warranty?

    Am I in the wrong here, or do I share some responsibility because it was my transmission he's having difficulty with? Would I be in my right to just ask for my vehicle back and take it elsewhere for a swap?
    Last edited by Kloubek; 10-29-2020 at 11:47 AM.

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    Well you owe him for the time and supplies required to fit the shift kit. Whether it worked or not is irrelevant.

    Do you still have the quote receipt that you should've gotten before proceeding? That was my mistake when I had the brake lines rebuilt for the Mini years ago and it cost me a pretty penny.
    Last edited by flipstah; 10-29-2020 at 11:51 AM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    The benefit of masks is not known at this time. But we do know it is some non-trivial amount more than zero.

    We also know that the cost of mask use is, essentially, zero.

    So the cost:benefit of mask use is approaching infinity. I'll take that every time. And every time I see someone without a mask, I think they are stupid.

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    Have you considered a Trackhawk?
    I like neat cars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kloubek View Post
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    So, I picked up a used Range Rover supercharged with a hooped transmission recently. Debated between a used unit, a rebuild, or a reman unit. Reman was out of my price range, and decided that the warranty of a rebuilt was the way to go, although it was about 2g more than a used unit.

    Took a while to find a shop that was willing to work on a ZF. Found a couple and decided on one.

    First issue: He's had it for 6 weeks. He claims he thought it was just a flip vehicle for me and there was no rush. (I never told him that. I did say it wasn't a huge rush as I had my Jeep, but I was in the process of selling it to pay for the rebuild and didn't think it would take more than a week or two to rebuild). So now, 6 weeks later, I don't have a car I can drive in the winter. Good thing I'm currently without a job or this would be even more complicated.

    A week ago he said the rebuild was done, but he was having difficulty with intermittent hard shifts coming to a light gearing down from 2nd to 1st. He suggested we add a shift kit for an extra $350. Ok. He installed it, and called this morning to say it is still doing it. Hes out of ideas on this transmission.

    He said there is a used unit not too far away he wanted to drop in instead. Said he would not charge me anything extra and would eat all the failed rebuild costs himself.

    Am I wrong in thinking that is not my problem? I took my vehicle to him to get the tranny rebuilt. He couldn't rebuild it properly for whatever reason. IMO, I don't owe him a thing. Had I went straight for a used unit it would have been far less (about 1.5g to 2g less) from the beginning. Why am I paying rebuild costs for a used unit now, probably with no warranty?

    Am I in the wrong here, or do I share some responsibility because it was my transmission he's having difficulty with? Would I be in my right to just ask for my vehicle back and take it elsewhere for a swap?
    Seems like he is being upfront and honest with you on the work he is doing.

    I would give him some slack man. It doesn't look like an easy thing to do either. He is also spending a lot of time on his end trying to get it to work.

    I think one thing you can ask for, is if he is willing to warranty the work he is doing for at least 6 months, and hopefully a year, and have it written. Last thing you want is to do this and then you're stranded on the road a month later.

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    who rebuilds modern transmissions? Suppliers. Most shops wouldn't touch it for good reason. You should be reviewing the paper work, but I'd be angling to pay for the shift kit and picking up the rover without paying for anything else. Paying for a fresh trans and getting a used one in unknown condition shouldn't be accepted without discussing price.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestalt View Post
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    Im the one with a learning disability....

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    I would drive it myself and see how hard a shift it is. If it's reasonable amount (he might be being too picky) I would keep the rebuild with the condition of an extended warranty on it.

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    Interesting responses so far.

    I did not get anything in writing, though I record all conversations and have him telling me the rebuild should be 5-6k. I also have him telling me we are sitting at $4800, minus the $350 shift kit as of last week.

    I don't want to screw the guy. In any business transaction, I never like leaving one side pissed off. But my main beef is paying an extra 1500-2000 for his failure to accomplish what we agreed to. If I wanted a used transmission for 3500, I would have gone that route in the first place. I certainly am not keen on paying an extra couple grand for it now...

    I'm not sure he would be willing to warranty a transmission that he got elsewhere, nor warranty this rebuilt one now. He says when it acts up, it shifts really hard. I don't think he is being picky. I should have asked him that this morning if he'd warranty the used one but he woke me up so I was kinda groggy...

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    What year is it? is the trans controlled by a TCM? You can modify so many parameters with newer transmissions so maybe the tranny is fine after the rebuild and something is wrong with/off in the TCM?

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    Its an 06. It absolutely has a TCM but he says he's done everything he can to program it to alleviate the harsh shift.

    The worst would be if he gets this used one, and it turns out it WAS the electronics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by never View Post
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    What year is it? is the trans controlled by a TCM? You can modify so many parameters with newer transmissions so maybe the tranny is fine after the rebuild and something is wrong with/off in the TCM?
    That's a good possibility. A nicked wire grounding out on occasion.

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    If these guys were some random/cheapest transmission shop, and not experts on the ZF - you just rolled the dice and lost.

    The rebuild on these is likely more complicated than factory as the factory no doubt cut so many corners in engineering/manufacturing that no reputable shop would guarantee any work on these units, unless they were refurbished BETTER than OEM.

    No doubt there are special tools required to properly diagnose the issues in the first place, which some A1 tranny shop wont have.

    These are the joys of owing a euro vehicle, and then 10x when its a RR. If owning used, one really needs to geek out on these vehicles in that the common failure modes need to be understood quickly - before even taking it to any shop - and then one need to understand the REQUIREMENTS to even do the repairs (special tools etc.).

    Good quote: 95% of Range Rovers are still on the road. The other 5% made it home.




    There are YT videos where people have done this with specific vehicles (eg hoovies garage) and the common failure modes and points are revealed for anyone to learn and understand.

    DOUG DEMURO (generic video about his own RR 2006)

    Last edited by revelations; 10-29-2020 at 12:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by revelations View Post
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    If these guys were some random/cheapest transmission shop, and not experts on the ZF - you just rolled the dice and lost.

    The rebuild on these is likely more complicated than factory as the factory no doubt cut so many corners in engineering/manufacturing that no reputable shop would guarantee any work on these units, unless they were refurbished BETTER than OEM.

    No doubt there are special tools required to properly diagnose the issues in the first place, which some A1 tranny shop wont have.

    These are the joys of owing a euro vehicle, and then 10x when its a RR.

    If owning used, one really needs to geek out on these vehicles in that the common failure modes need to be understood quickly - before even taking it to any shop.
    Way to rub salt in the wound

    Quote Originally Posted by Kloubek View Post
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    The worst would be if he gets this used one, and it turns out it WAS the electronics.
    But then you could ask him to cover the electronics and you'll get what you originally wanted (albeit a large time delay, but count that as a loss).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kloubek View Post
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    Interesting responses so far.

    I did not get anything in writing, though I record all conversations and have him telling me the rebuild should be 5-6k. I also have him telling me we are sitting at $4800, minus the $350 shift kit as of last week.

    I don't want to screw the guy. In any business transaction, I never like leaving one side pissed off. But my main beef is paying an extra 1500-2000 for his failure to accomplish what we agreed to. If I wanted a used transmission for 3500, I would have gone that route in the first place. I certainly am not keen on paying an extra couple grand for it now...

    I'm not sure he would be willing to warranty a transmission that he got elsewhere, nor warranty this rebuilt one now. He says when it acts up, it shifts really hard. I don't think he is being picky. I should have asked him that this morning if he'd warranty the used one but he woke me up so I was kinda groggy...
    So you're at 4800$ incurred and to keep going, either do a swap or pay further into the unknown? Sounds like a fun gamble to me.

    And try to think about it on the other side of the coin: If you tried something at work; failed; do you still expect to get paid? What happens after is irrelevant as well.

    Maybe go for a test drive and then see if you can live with this 'hard shifting' or he's being nitpicky.

    Side note: I'm pretty sure I used a semicolon correctly on this one.


    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    The benefit of masks is not known at this time. But we do know it is some non-trivial amount more than zero.

    We also know that the cost of mask use is, essentially, zero.

    So the cost:benefit of mask use is approaching infinity. I'll take that every time. And every time I see someone without a mask, I think they are stupid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disoblige View Post
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    Way to rub salt in the wound


    But then you could ask him to cover the electronics and you'll get what you originally wanted (albeit a large time delay, but count that as a loss).
    ...especially since the salt is not required. I did extensive research on these transmissions before buying it and knew the common failure points.

    As for him covering electronics and me getting what I wanted, that would require him to rip the used out and put the rebuilt one back in.

    This is getting messy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flipstah View Post
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    Side note: I'm pretty sure I used a semicolon correctly on this one.
    No, no you didn't. Unless you were being sarcastic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disoblige View Post
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    Way to rub salt in the wound .
    That wasnt my intent, thats the reality of owing one of the most unreliable vehicles ever made in recent history. As OP mentioned, MANY shops would not touch this.

    You can certainly own a used one, but you must be a total geek on these - or have $$$ to burn on mechanics.

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    So the used one is in now?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestalt View Post
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    Im the one with a learning disability....

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    Isn't the jerking a standard feature with every god damn ZF transmission on the road?

    Seriously, their stupid fucking transmissions suck in virtually every Acura on the road. And they have major issues in many Jeeps as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by revelations View Post
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    That wasnt my intent, thats the reality of owing one of the most unreliable vehicles ever made in recent history. As OP mentioned, MANY shops would not touch this.

    You can certainly own a used one, but you must be a total geek on these - or have $$$ to burn on mechanics.
    Drivetrain on the 2006 to 2010 (?) models is actually quite robust in these. Thats why I bought it. I figured I get a warranty on the tranny and the inevitable other issues I can usually fix myself. You're not wrong though in saying Land Rover is unreliable.

    No, used one hasn't been even shipped yet. Another week of downtime before it gets put in. I told him to go ahead in my sleep state, but wanted opinions quickly if I found a better alternate route.

    And it isn't just a jerk. It's an actual bang... intermittently. I trust him on his assessment, since I felt it once before bringing it in and it really was hard.
    Last edited by Kloubek; 10-29-2020 at 12:43 PM.

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    Dumb question, but would the dealer even rebuild these? If the dealer wont open up or touch these then you know its something pretty bad and can only really be properly serviced by specialists. One good way to gauge sentiment.

    edit - and by 'robust' you are referring a relative standard? lol .... (ie. robust in comparison to other RR models/years).
    Last edited by revelations; 10-29-2020 at 12:44 PM.

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