Who is getting the COVID-19 Vaccine?

[duaner]

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So with the additional vaccines on the horizon, more global info, etc., who are the respective front-runners for the "so effective you could lick door handles and toilet bowls in China with relative impunity" or "some kind of covid super autism even though we said it was safe" titles?

There are still frontline workers that need it, as well as the homeless population.

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Ol' JT would love it if a far better one came along the majority could have access to. Just play it off as shrewd vacc-cumen!

Yup. Anything to make it look like he knows what he is doing.

[Xtrema]

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- still no hints as to what restrictions a vaccine will lift for a person, eg. allow flights to canada, no mask, etc. Might not see anything about this until fall, at this rate.

I think data from Israel will pave the way to see any restriction can be lifted in 2021 since they vaccinated their population quickest and relatively dense population. Fall is probably a good target at this rate if 80% vaccination is needed as set out by CDC.

Maccabi Health Services, one of Israel’s four health maintenance organizations (HMOs), tracked 163,000 Israelis who had received both of the two required doses of the Pfizer vaccine; only 31 of those people tested positive for Covid-19, compared to an unvaccinated sample in which about 6,500 did.

https://www.vox.com/22262509/israel-...llness-decline

[JRSC00LUDE]

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There are still frontline workers that need it, as well as the homeless population.

I think you misunderstood my question? I meant is there one vaccine that stands above the rest? Or one that's not what it was touted to be after widespread application? The first could include the possibly a new one coming that will (allegedly) be much better than any yet being administered?

I'm not about to spend an hour on Google, there's many more people here more well read on the topic than I.

[mr2mike]

I'm also interested.
I don't think they have enough data but definitely need to be cautious on who funds those results.
Definitely don't want the PC brand vaccine if you can get the Aspen vaccine instead.

[duaner]

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I think you misunderstood my question? I meant is there one vaccine that stands above the rest? Or one that's not what it was touted to be after widespread application? The first could include the possibly a new one coming that will (allegedly) be much better than any yet being administered?

I'm not about to spend an hour on Google, there's many more people here more well read on the topic than I.

Wow, did I ever misunderstand. I've been running on fumes these days, having started shift-work. Switching between the occasional all-nighter and getting up at 5 am is difficult on my old brain. I, like you, will defer to those who know more than I.

[bjstare]

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Also, does anyone else think Buster is like some sort of bizarro world Kert? All the rebuttals except offered with clear, focused intelligence laced with pleasing hints of social skills?

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that's a compliment, thanks. haha

Will you two just make out already?

[JRSC00LUDE]

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Wow, did I ever misunderstand. I've been running on fumes these days, having started shift-work. Switching between the occasional all-nighter and getting up at 5 am is difficult on my old brain. I, like you, will defer to those who know more than I.

It Saul Goodman!

[Buster]

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I think you misunderstood my question? I meant is there one vaccine that stands above the rest? Or one that's not what it was touted to be after widespread application? The first could include the possibly a new one coming that will (allegedly) be much better than any yet being administered?

I'm not about to spend an hour on Google, there's many more people here more well read on the topic than I.

We still don't know since there are only two approved in NA. I don't love the quality of the data the brits used for the AZ vaccine, so let's set that aside.

The two mRNA vaccines are ridiculously good. The clinical trial data is good, and the real world data we are now getting is as good or better. I still wouldn't go licking doorhandles, but if you get sick from it, it almost certainly isn't covid. Basically, you can't get better than how these vaccines are performing.

The only question is are the newer ones going to end up looking like the B team. We don't know. It doesn't really look like there is a big drop-off in terms of efficacy to NV and J+J. A big reduction in efficacy would be a bit surprising, since they are all using the same target for a response: the spike protein. So any changes in the efficacy of the AZ,J+J and NV vaccines would be a result of them getting the dosing wrong (very possible), or to humans not reacting as efficiently because of the delivery mechanism (also possible).

But all of these companies are very experienced at vaccine development and dosing using a variety of technologies, so I'd be surprised if they pooched it to a degree where their vaccines are looked at as non-Aspen. The surprising one was Sanofi. They seem to have shit the bed.

[ExtraSlow]

Our national newspaper is outraged.

https://financialpost.com/investing/...ld-be-outraged

[mr2mike]

No one likes their booze watered down,
Their coke cut with baking soda.
So now,
Health Canada now is essentially watering down the vaccine.
Half doses for everyone so they can double up on the # of people vaccinated statistic and catch up to the rest of the first world.
Anyone see how this backfires?

I want top shelf vaccine, not a short pour injection.

[Xtrema]

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Our national newspaper is outraged.

https://financialpost.com/investing/...ld-be-outraged

I will reserve my outrage if I don't get a shot in Aug/Sep.

Americans also spent $18B in operation warp speed and $2B is pretty much thrown away at Sanofi with little to no result to date. So hindsight is will we be in better shape if we throw a couple bil their way?

[killramos]

We live in Canada, getting top shelf anything is a pipe dream.

[FraserB]

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No one likes their booze watered down,
Their coke cut with baking soda.
So now,
Health Canada now is essentially watering down the vaccine.
Half doses for everyone so they can double up on the # of people vaccinated statistic and catch up to the rest of the first world.
Anyone see how this backfires?

I want top shelf vaccine, not a short pour injection.

How do you feel that HC is "watering down the vaccine"? I assume that your statement is somehow related to the approval to extract six doses from each Pfizer vial and you feel that HC has erred in their approval?

[pheoxs]

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How do you feel that HC is "watering down the vaccine"? I assume that your statement is somehow related to the approval to extract six doses from each Pfizer vial and you feel that HC has erred in their approval?

I'd guess its related to Quebec being dumb fucks and only giving people 1 dose rather than 2. I believe Pfizer is really upset because Quebec decided, with no factual information, to push the second dose to 90 days.

[mr2mike]

Ok they're not watering it down but this extra dose requires special technique and special syringe.
I see this as an additional future issue.
But now that I read... This is a Pfizer move to fulfill contracts with a goal post move.

[FraserB]

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Ok they're not watering it down but this extra dose requires special technique and special syringe.
I see this as an additional future issue.
But now that I read... This is a Pfizer move to fulfill contracts with a goal post move.

What future issue that HC hasn't considered do you think this will cause in the future and which goal post is being moved?

[Tik-Tok]

I'd rather the 100% of the country be vaccinated with a 52% efficacy, than 50% be vaccinated with a 95% efficacy.

We've ordered far more vaccines than we need, we can play catch-up after the economy is open and more doses available.

[Xtrema]

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But now that I read... This is a Pfizer move to fulfill contracts with a goal post move.

Yeah, it's a Pfizer move to have it officially labelled 6 doses instead of 5. But HC and all the health professionals pushed back because it requires special needles, higher difficulty and even if all stars aligns, they can only get 6th doses 75% of the time.

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I'd rather the 100% of the country be vaccinated with a 52% efficacy, than 50% be vaccinated with a 95% efficacy.

We've ordered far more vaccines than we need, we can play catch-up after the economy is open and more doses available.

Hopefully approving AZ and JJ will increase availability. JJ is also 1 dose, so a lot less arrangement/tracking for the 2nd dose.

[Buster]

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I'd rather the 100% of the country be vaccinated with a 52% efficacy, than 50% be vaccinated with a 95% efficacy.

We've ordered far more vaccines than we need, we can play catch-up after the economy is open and more doses available.

This has a very real risk - a 50% efficacy can lead to selection pressure that speeds "antigenic drift". It helps the virus combat the vaccine.

[Tik-Tok]

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This has a very real risk - a 50% efficacy can lead to selection pressure that speeds "antigenic drift". It helps the virus combat the vaccine.

Point taken.