Who is getting the COVID-19 Vaccine?

[ExtraSlow]

I don't know what they "should" do. But an off-ramp sounds great.

Luckily, hospitalizations are about to decline anyway, but not nearly as hard and as fast as they could under options presented above.

[Misterman]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I agree but there is also the resentment of 75% who did the right thing and are still getting fucked by the 25%.

The real answer is to fight the miss information but that is even harder, just look at sportel and jibjib they are in deep.

Decreasing misinformation isn't going to do much of anything. Misinformation itself from the ultra pro vax crowd, is a huge part of the reason 40% of people didn't want the vax in the first place. And now the real holdouts are just a small percentage of staunch anti vaxxers, and a bunch of of people that believe in liberty over their bodily autonomy so strongly that they won't do anything that the government is forcing them to do whether it is the right choice or not.

[finboy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I agree but there is also the resentment of 75% who did the right thing and are still getting fucked by the 25%.

The real answer is to fight the miss information but that is even harder, just look at sportel and jibjib they are in deep.

the 75% perceive the 25% are doing it to them, but the 25% aren’t the ones forcing people into masks, telling people not to gather for family events, etc. But I will note that I don’t think there is malice from any side here (select individuals aside). Governments are using the only tool they have because all the other ones could cost them an election, the 75% just want this to end and are looking to get the 25% in line (with their own free will or otherwise) so the government will stop, the 25% want this to all end but don’t want to be forced into doing something they don’t believe in (whether I believe their reasoning is sound or not).

I actually think buster’s analogy below makes even more sense with regards to icu’s

In other words, your freedom to throw a punch ends where my nose begins. By the same logic, perhaps your freedom to be infected ends where your infection of other people begins.

This makes a great case for selective triage.

Scenario, I fast forward my life to the point I am 65 years old, no fault of my own I get in a car crash in Medicine Hat. At the same time, a 25 year old is rushed to the hospital with covid. There is only one bed left, the prospects of survival favour the 25 year old and even though I have done everything right (vaccinated, social distancing, blah blah) the doctors likely have a duty to save the most likely to survive. The actions of the unvaccinated in our current universal system have made the 25year old wildly swinging their arms around take priority over me. In effect their inaction now impacts my life because the current policy would force the hands of the medical staff. Re-run that scenario with selective triage, were the 25 year old aware of the risks were they not to take the vaccine it would make a much more fair approach to our medical system.

Can of worms that I’m sure turbomedic would have a very different opinion on, but I think at this point the inaction of the unvaccinated hurts us more at point of service rather than day to day, and there is a less poor ethical choice that could resolve much of this. That said, courts could find a very different decision but one worth finding out IMO.

[redline]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Decreasing misinformation isn't going to do much of anything. Misinformation itself from the ultra pro vax crowd, is a huge part of the reason 40% of people didn't want the vax in the first place. And now the real holdouts are just a small percentage of staunch anti vaxxers, and a bunch of of people that believe in liberty over their bodily autonomy so strongly that they won't do anything that the government is forcing them to do whether it is the right choice or not.

What miss information from the ultra pro vax ?

[finboy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

What miss information from the ultra pro vax ?

-locking down travel from major sources in the early day is racist
-masks don’t work (fauci admitted he said this despite having knowledge otherwise at the time)
-herd immunity is 70%-80%-85%+ (fauci changed this because he admitted he thought the higher number would increase uptake)
-the lab leak is not possible and is a conspiracy theory from racists (both fauci and daszak peddled this hard)
-natural immunity isn’t good enough to protect you (fauci was pushed on this many times and deflected with non answers)
-the new Merck pill shouldn’t be looked at as an option for government funding (per previous video, the government wouldn’t back it for fears of decreasing vaccine uptick)
-changes in approval for Johnson and Johnson shot (somewhat warranted but terribly handled)

That is top of my head, governments and media outlets have done themselves no favours in convincing the vaccine hesitant they should be trusted. I will grant that science changes and so does our understanding of the disease but the above examples do not fall into that category. They were just outright dumb moves.

4 out of 10 Democrats believe the hospitalization risk for the unvaccinated is 50%, it’s actually 1-5%. That is the impact of covid hysteria misinformation vs covid denial misinformation. It’s all bad, but understanding the above can help understand why the unvaccinated might not trust the vaccine, and why granting them alternatives is better than starving them out.

[rage2]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I've not had to take my shoes off at any Canadian airport in like two years. That's YEG, YYZ, YVR, YLW, YXC, YXU, etc. We got rid of this for Domestic flights like 10 years ago. I don't think a lot of airports got the memo till a few years back. It's for domestic flights, but I haven't been hassled for international flights either in a long time.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rticle1202194/

Talking about flying to US.

[redline]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

-locking down travel from major sources in the early day is racist
-masks don’t work (fauci admitted he said this despite having knowledge otherwise at the time)
-herd immunity is 70%-80%-85%+ (fauci changed this because he admitted he thought the higher number would increase uptake)
-the lab leak is not possible and is a conspiracy theory from racists (both fauci and daszak peddled this hard)
-natural immunity isn’t good enough to protect you (fauci was pushed on this many times and deflected with non answers)
-the new Merck pill shouldn’t be looked at as an option for government funding (per previous video, the government wouldn’t back it for fears of decreasing vaccine uptick)
-changes in approval for Johnson and Johnson shot (somewhat warranted but terribly handled)

That is top of my head, governments and media outlets have done themselves no favours in convincing the vaccine hesitant they should be trusted. I will grant that science changes and so does our understanding of the disease but the above examples do not fall into that category. They were just outright dumb moves.

4 out of 10 Democrats believe the hospitalization risk for the unvaccinated is 50%, it’s actually 1-5%. That is the impact of covid hysteria misinformation vs covid denial misinformation. It’s all bad, but understanding the above can help understand why the unvaccinated might not trust the vaccine, and why granting them alternatives is better than starving them out.

1 I am not sure what racism has to do with pro vax ? Maybe lib it not pro vax or does pro vax mean lib?
2. And 3 please post complete vid of him saying this from a legit source
4 I can see this
5 could be political, guess we need to wait for the book,
6 when did development start and who was pres at the time ?
7 agree
8 I don’t see cnn promoting 50% so that is more miss info that is aimed at different people

I see a lot blame on fauci so we should cut off us news then , is that what you are saying ?

[msommers]

I would guess the ICU capacity vs. % of population fully vaccinated has a compelling correlation. The obvious example is Portugal.

[mr2mike]

I can't believe we've gone this far but just wondering if at this point we could start a "Who's NOT getting the COVID-19 Vaccine" thread?

[SportEL]

Misinformation: Ivermectin is Horse Paste De-wormer that is Unsafe and Useless against Covid19

False: There is a Human Pill Form that is an FDA approved broad spectrum anti-parasitic agent. It is an award winning 2015 Nobel Prize drug. Is has demonstrated antiviral activity against a number of DNA and RNA viruses. There has been over 100 studies on including 77 Peer-Reviewed and 31 Random Controlled Trials showing it's effectiveness in Prevention and Treatment of Covid19

--> https://c19ivermectin.com/

If the treatment protocol would be allowed to be used everywhere, just imagine the amount of cases and deaths that would have been prevented and avoided just by allowing people to try the drug. All methods should be available as a means to cope with Covid19. Denying the efficacy of the treatment does not help things at all.

How bad could it be to try a cheap and effective treatment?

[Misterman]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

What miss information from the ultra pro vax ?

Vaccine is the only type of immunity that works(false)
The vaccine is super safe and thoroughly tested(false)
No prophylactics work(false)
The twisting of numbers to make ICU's seem they were full due to covid cases when they were not.
The massive overinflating of case counts
The overinflating of death counts linked to covid


In the early stages all the left wing nutjobs that are super pro vax now, were telling people not to trust the vaccine since it was developed through Trumps project Warpspeed. Now all of a sudden they change their minds as soon as Trump is gone.

The risks of covid have been massively over exaggerated in an attempt to scare people into getting the vax. The stat Finboy gave was not a joke, that's an actual stat that Democrats think they have a 50% chance of ending up in hospital if they catch covid.

The pro vax crowd has been the epicenter for misinformation the past 2 years.

[finboy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

1 I am not sure what racism has to do with pro vax ? Maybe lib it not pro vax or does pro vax mean lib?
2. And 3 please post complete vid of him saying this from a legit source
4 I can see this
5 could be political, guess we need to wait for the book,
6 when did development start and who was pres at the time ?
7 agree
8 I don’t see cnn promoting 50% so that is more miss info that is aimed at different people

I see a lot blame on fauci so we should cut off us news then , is that what you are saying ?

Per the Merck pill, started under trump, single doctor whistle blew to own trump and his boss. The government had to pass for political reasons and the pill had to be taken through to regulatory system via Merck.


The states is going to set opinion in Canada as we can’t do much about cultural bleedover. I’m those clips I can even see why fauci would make those decisions but they are terrible from an optics perspective, it comes across as “im lying to you for your own good.” I honestly don’t think there is a “good” solution for getting rid of misinformation because it is such a challenging thing to define. There is good money in telling people what they want to hear, whether grifting a snake oil cure or creating clickbate article that avoids nuance, it’s the zeitgeist of information flow today.


Per the racism, that is less of the pro vax crowd so much as politicians (pelosi as an example, but hajdu/Trudeau carried a LOT of water for the ccp, I’ll grant that trim also did no favours here) broad brushing anyone who opposed them as racist early in the pandemic. That is not getting off on the right foot and it’s been all down hill from there. With all the above, I don’t find it unreasonable that anti vax people don’t trust what’s being told to them, or believing other half truths to conspiracy theories. I still think the vaccine is the best bet for our way out of this but I don’t expect anyone hardened in their position will listen to me. Rather than changing minds, giving a third way will at least provide us an opportunity to move forward out of this quagmire.

[rage2]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I’d still be interested in a wider scale study of ivermectin from a more reliable source. What we have so far is some copy/paste job which doctored results on one side, and the demonization of the entire drug as “lol horse dewormer.” If it turns out to be bunk, so be it, if it turns out to have some impact, one more tool in the workbench to solve the issue. I never understood the standpoint of “we should ONLY be exploring vaccines” that comes across from certain groups.

I believe there are 3 studies going for ivermectin, the UK principal study, and a US and Canada one as well. From what I understand so far, ivermectin at high doses can kill off covid cells in a lab, but that dosage will also kill humans. The studies is to understand at human safe levels of ivermectin, if it even aids in stopping or managing COVID.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I would guess the ICU capacity vs. % of population fully vaccinated has a compelling correlation. The obvious example is Portugal.

An interesting piece of data as to why we're so stressed for ICU capacity, is because we actually don't have that many ICU beds per capita to begin with, compared to say, the US. It's because Canadians are generally healthier, and that's come back to bite us because it'd be stupid to staff unused ICU beds pre-COVID for no reason. Certainly I was a huge AHS critic about wastage and that would be another piece of ammo I'd use against them.

[TurboMedic]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Or you restrict movement till they get the vax which is the current method

I question whether its restrictive enough. Although I'm sure the needle will start to move a bit again once they want to go to the beaches again, or the court challenges start falling through. Its too early and some of them think they legitimately have a chance of winning

[RawB8figure]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Misinformation: Ivermectin is Horse Paste De-wormer that is Unsafe and Useless against Covid19

False: There is a Human Pill Form that is an FDA approved broad spectrum anti-parasitic agent. It is an award winning 2015 Nobel Prize drug. Is has demonstrated antiviral activity against a number of DNA and RNA viruses. There has been over 100 studies on including 77 Peer-Reviewed and 31 Random Controlled Trials showing it's effectiveness in Prevention and Treatment of Covid19

--> https://c19ivermectin.com/

If the treatment protocol would be allowed to be used everywhere, just imagine the amount of cases and deaths that would have been prevented and avoided just by allowing people to try the drug. All methods should be available as a means to cope with Covid19. Denying the efficacy of the treatment does not help things at all.

How bad could it be to try a cheap and effective treatment?

believe there are 3 studies going for ivermectin, the UK principal study, and a US and Canada one as well. From what I understand so far, ivermectin at high doses can kill off covid cells in a lab, but that dosage will also kill humans. The studies is to understand at human safe levels of ivermectin, if it even aids in stopping or managing COVID.

81 trails in the works on this drug at the moment.
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/resul...&Search=Search

[ExtraSlow]

USA border requirements will convince a few more. Land border opening Nov 1 to vaxxed.

[pheoxs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

USA border requirements will convince a few more. Land border opening Nov 1 to vaxxed.

It's not the 1st is it? I thought they just said early Nov and the date tbd.

[Tik-Tok]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

. From what I understand so far, ivermectin at high doses can kill off covid cells in a lab, but that dosage will also kill humans.

So it's agreed. We give the unvaccinated in ICU's exactly what they want. Enough Ivermectin to kill the virus.

[JRSC00LUDE]

I think it'll be really funny if the results of the studies actually verifies Invermectin as a viable early infection treatment. I'm rooting for it just for the lolz even.

[killramos]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

So it's agreed. We give the unvaccinated in ICU's exactly what they want. Enough Ivermectin to kill the virus.

Doing nothing is an even cheaper treatment.