2021 f1

[killramos]

Sounds to me like you are far too invested in the result rather than the sport lol

Anyone is welcome to make a better car any time they want

[shakalaka]

Exactly.

[Buster]

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I don't know what you're on about. Hamilton had gotten a 10 second stop and go penalty in Silverstone in a widely regarded incident where majority of people thought he should not have gotten a penalty to begin with. The consequences of Max's own dangerous actions caused that crash and nothing Hamilton did. And in this case even though it is completely obvious that what Max did was wrong, but just because Hamilton was smart enough to avoid the crash stewards did not issue a penalty.

Basically Hamilton was penalized to cover off the consequences of that Silverstone incident because it was a big crash. The rules say the stewards aren't supposed to care about the consequences but actions themselves, but they have been doing the opposite so far this year. So if they apply the rules evenly, it is very easily justifiable that Max should get a grid penalty. He should have at least gotten a 5 or 10 second penalty in the race itself causing him to finish 3rd or 4th as opposed to 2nd. But that wasn't done, so a grid penalty going into the next race is not just justifiable but unfair if it isn't applied.

They punish people all of the time for causing incidents, so the outcome is a required component of their assessment.

[Misterman]

It's wild how many emotions are getting involved in people's assessment of the Silverstone incident. Hamilton recklessly rammed his car up the inside, knowing full well he would understeer right off the fucking track with that telemetry. He knew he would have the advantage in the event of collision being that he was on the inside. You can cry all you want about about Max closing the corner or whatever you think happened, but Max had no reason to expect Lewis to be there as his speed on that line required him to back out much earlier and leave the corner wide open for Max.


Now we have this Brazil incident which is a tad similar, yet not near as mal intentioned as the Silverstone one. Max was off the right line because he was trying to keep Lewis out of his tow. Lewis did a pretty brilliant job of dummying Max in this case, and got himself on the fast line while simultaneously getting Max on the slow line. Perfect setup from Lewis honestly. However, it's still Lewis that has to make the pass, and Max has the lead advantage approaching the corner. Max let off the brake early to carry more speed, likely expecting a bit of understeer and running a bit wide. A bit of understeer quickly turned into a lot of understeer, and then we see both cars leave the track.

We can speculate about the drivers intentions in both incidents all we want. But those speculations are completely moot when it comes to a penalty ruling. The irony here is that Mercedes was essentially making a speculation plea in the moment that Max ran Lewis off the track, which should be a penalty. Now we get all the data and see a pretty clear racing incident with no supporting evidence that Max intentionally ran Lewis off, and then Merc decides to file an appeal all of a sudden. Weird strategy.

Again, they should've investigated this in real time during the race. Then we could all be arguing about the FIA ruling, instead of arguing about nothing.

[Type_S1]

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It's wild how many emotions are getting involved in people's assessment of the Silverstone incident. Hamilton recklessly rammed his car up the inside, knowing full well he would understeer right off the fucking track with that telemetry. He knew he would have the advantage in the event of collision being that he was on the inside. You can cry all you want about about Max closing the corner or whatever you think happened, but Max had no reason to expect Lewis to be there as his speed on that line required him to back out much earlier and leave the corner wide open for Max.


Now we have this Brazil incident which is a tad similar, yet not near as mal intentioned as the Silverstone one. Max was off the right line because he was trying to keep Lewis out of his tow. Lewis did a pretty brilliant job of dummying Max in this case, and got himself on the fast line while simultaneously getting Max on the slow line. Perfect setup from Lewis honestly. However, it's still Lewis that has to make the pass, and Max has the lead advantage approaching the corner. Max let off the brake early to carry more speed, likely expecting a bit of understeer and running a bit wide. A bit of understeer quickly turned into a lot of understeer, and then we see both cars leave the track.

We can speculate about the drivers intentions in both incidents all we want. But those speculations are completely moot when it comes to a penalty ruling. The irony here is that Mercedes was essentially making a speculation plea in the moment that Max ran Lewis off the track, which should be a penalty. Now we get all the data and see a pretty clear racing incident with no supporting evidence that Max intentionally ran Lewis off, and then Merc decides to file an appeal all of a sudden. Weird strategy.

Again, they should've investigated this in real time during the race. Then we could all be arguing about the FIA ruling, instead of arguing about nothing.

Man oh man, you have the RBR/max beer goggles on here. Throughout his career he’s been labeled as short tempered and reckless and has demonstrated he is one of the most, if not the most, reckless driver on the grid right now (mazepin is hard to beat though). This is the second time he has targeted HAM in the last few races (one his car ended up on top of the merc). You can argue all the BS you want about understeer…it is clear to everyone except RBR fanboys that Max’s move was intentional. You honestly believe that arguably the best driver in the world would take a corner so poorly as to go off the track? When is the last time he made such a serious unintentional driving error - I honestly can’t think of one.

I’m not even a Merc fan but you are smoking something good to think this was an innocent error lol….

[Misterman]

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Man oh man, you have the RBR/max beer goggles on here. Throughout his career he’s been labeled as short tempered and reckless and has demonstrated he is one of the most, if not the most, reckless driver on the grid right now (mazepin is hard to beat though). This is the second time he has targeted HAM in the last few races (one his car ended up on top of the merc). You can argue all the BS you want about understeer…it is clear to everyone except RBR fanboys that Max’s move was intentional. You honestly believe that arguably the best driver in the world would take a corner so poorly as to go off the track? When is the last time he made such a serious unintentional driving error - I honestly can’t think of one.

I’m not even a Merc fan but you are smoking something good to think this was an innocent error lol….

So you didn't even read my post and have me labeled as an RBR fanboy. Interesting. Looks like we found the Hamilton fanboy.

[flipstah]

Can I be labeled as a Checo fanboy?

[Buster]

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It's wild how many emotions are getting involved in people's assessment of the Silverstone incident. Hamilton recklessly rammed his car up the inside, knowing full well he would understeer right off the fucking track with that telemetry. He knew he would have the advantage in the event of collision being that he was on the inside. You can cry all you want about about Max closing the corner or whatever you think happened, but Max had no reason to expect Lewis to be there as his speed on that line required him to back out much earlier and leave the corner wide open for Max.


Now we have this Brazil incident which is a tad similar, yet not near as mal intentioned as the Silverstone one. Max was off the right line because he was trying to keep Lewis out of his tow. Lewis did a pretty brilliant job of dummying Max in this case, and got himself on the fast line while simultaneously getting Max on the slow line. Perfect setup from Lewis honestly. However, it's still Lewis that has to make the pass, and Max has the lead advantage approaching the corner. Max let off the brake early to carry more speed, likely expecting a bit of understeer and running a bit wide. A bit of understeer quickly turned into a lot of understeer, and then we see both cars leave the track.

We can speculate about the drivers intentions in both incidents all we want. But those speculations are completely moot when it comes to a penalty ruling. The irony here is that Mercedes was essentially making a speculation plea in the moment that Max ran Lewis off the track, which should be a penalty. Now we get all the data and see a pretty clear racing incident with no supporting evidence that Max intentionally ran Lewis off, and then Merc decides to file an appeal all of a sudden. Weird strategy.

Again, they should've investigated this in real time during the race. Then we could all be arguing about the FIA ruling, instead of arguing about nothing.

This is the best summary I've heard of the max and Lewis issues this year.

The most generous take I have is that Lewis is better at ramming than max. That appears to be evident.

- - - Updated - - -

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Man oh man, you have the RBR/max beer goggles on here. Throughout his career he’s been labeled as short tempered and reckless and has demonstrated he is one of the most, if not the most, reckless driver on the grid right now (mazepin is hard to beat though). This is the second time he has targeted HAM in the last few races (one his car ended up on top of the merc). You can argue all the BS you want about understeer…it is clear to everyone except RBR fanboys that Max’s move was intentional. You honestly believe that arguably the best driver in the world would take a corner so poorly as to go off the track? When is the last time he made such a serious unintentional driving error - I honestly can’t think of one.

I’m not even a Merc fan but you are smoking something good to think this was an innocent error lol….

As you say, Lewis is far too good of a driver for Silverstone to have been an accident. He deliberately put a life in danger.

[2Legit2Quit]

Lewis drives Max into a wall, all good!

Max slightly drives Lewis off track, put him in jail!

Stupid RBR fans!

[dirtsniffer]

At this point I'm just cheering against shak

[OTown]

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It's wild how many emotions are getting involved in people's assessment of the Silverstone incident. Hamilton recklessly rammed his car up the inside, knowing full well he would understeer right off the fucking track with that telemetry. He knew he would have the advantage in the event of collision being that he was on the inside. You can cry all you want about about Max closing the corner or whatever you think happened, but Max had no reason to expect Lewis to be there as his speed on that line required him to back out much earlier and leave the corner wide open for Max.


Now we have this Brazil incident which is a tad similar, yet not near as mal intentioned as the Silverstone one. Max was off the right line because he was trying to keep Lewis out of his tow. Lewis did a pretty brilliant job of dummying Max in this case, and got himself on the fast line while simultaneously getting Max on the slow line. Perfect setup from Lewis honestly. However, it's still Lewis that has to make the pass, and Max has the lead advantage approaching the corner. Max let off the brake early to carry more speed, likely expecting a bit of understeer and running a bit wide. A bit of understeer quickly turned into a lot of understeer, and then we see both cars leave the track.

We can speculate about the drivers intentions in both incidents all we want. But those speculations are completely moot when it comes to a penalty ruling. The irony here is that Mercedes was essentially making a speculation plea in the moment that Max ran Lewis off the track, which should be a penalty. Now we get all the data and see a pretty clear racing incident with no supporting evidence that Max intentionally ran Lewis off, and then Merc decides to file an appeal all of a sudden. Weird strategy.

Again, they should've investigated this in real time during the race. Then we could all be arguing about the FIA ruling, instead of arguing about nothing.

Great summary!

[rage2]

I find it funny that you guys are interpreting no mal intention when you try to take a corner nearly 40km/h faster than previous laps on the wrong line. This is a potential WDC driver, not a rando at Speeders on a Friday night. You're judging the outcome without taking into consideration the other half of the equation, that being the other driver taking avoiding action or not.

[Buster]

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I find it funny that you guys are interpreting no mal intention when you try to take a corner nearly 40km/h faster than previous laps on the wrong line. This is a potential WDC driver, not a rando at Speeders on a Friday night.

I can't speak for the others, but I've never said Max didn't do anything wrong.

[sexualbanana]

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It's wild how many emotions are getting involved in people's assessment of the Silverstone incident. Hamilton recklessly rammed his car up the inside, knowing full well he would understeer right off the fucking track with that telemetry. He knew he would have the advantage in the event of collision being that he was on the inside. You can cry all you want about about Max closing the corner or whatever you think happened, but Max had no reason to expect Lewis to be there as his speed on that line required him to back out much earlier and leave the corner wide open for Max.


Now we have this Brazil incident which is a tad similar, yet not near as mal intentioned as the Silverstone one. Max was off the right line because he was trying to keep Lewis out of his tow. Lewis did a pretty brilliant job of dummying Max in this case, and got himself on the fast line while simultaneously getting Max on the slow line. Perfect setup from Lewis honestly. However, it's still Lewis that has to make the pass, and Max has the lead advantage approaching the corner. Max let off the brake early to carry more speed, likely expecting a bit of understeer and running a bit wide. A bit of understeer quickly turned into a lot of understeer, and then we see both cars leave the track.

We can speculate about the drivers intentions in both incidents all we want. But those speculations are completely moot when it comes to a penalty ruling. The irony here is that Mercedes was essentially making a speculation plea in the moment that Max ran Lewis off the track, which should be a penalty. Now we get all the data and see a pretty clear racing incident with no supporting evidence that Max intentionally ran Lewis off, and then Merc decides to file an appeal all of a sudden. Weird strategy.

Again, they should've investigated this in real time during the race. Then we could all be arguing about the FIA ruling, instead of arguing about nothing.

Funny how you think Max had no reason to expect Lewis to be there in that spot in Silverstone, yet you also see Lewis back out early in Brazil fully expecting Max to run wide. Let's not forget that Hamilton was ahead by 1/2 a length going to that corner and was first to brake (or at least brake harder) despite having the lead on the better racing line. So the only reason there wasn't any contact there was because he didn't do what Max did in Silverstone which is try to take the apex.

Max's calculus probably is that if he can force them both out of this race and the next, then he likely ends up with the championship.

[shakalaka]

Haha that's why the two sides will never see eye to eye with the other, so might as well enjoy the show and the ride. Regardless of whoever wins, we aren't getting shit from either of them so no point in us getting worked up over it.

[JfuckinC]

side note: George Russel looks like a serial killer

[Misterman]

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I find it funny that you guys are interpreting no mal intention when you try to take a corner nearly 40km/h faster than previous laps on the wrong line. This is a potential WDC driver, not a rando at Speeders on a Friday night. You're judging the outcome without taking into consideration the other half of the equation, that being the other driver taking avoiding action or not.

Who's judging it as no mal intention?

[Misterman]

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Funny how you think Max had no reason to expect Lewis to be there in that spot in Silverstone, yet you also see Lewis back out early in Brazil fully expecting Max to run wide. Let's not forget that Hamilton was ahead by 1/2 a length going to that corner and was first to brake (or at least brake harder) despite having the lead on the better racing line. So the only reason there wasn't any contact there was because he didn't do what Max did in Silverstone which is try to take the apex.

Max's calculus probably is that if he can force them both out of this race and the next, then he likely ends up with the championship.

Again, we can speculate all we want about the intentions, but it's a futile and pointless exercise. The question here is what is going to happen with Mercedes right to review? It doesn't appear they're providing any new information that would warrant a review. So this should be dead in the water. I might hate Lewis, but I'm still a fan of the sport. And as a fan these rules are frustrating sometimes. There is no excuse for this incident not being investigated during the race. But due to that inept call to not investigate, it's essentially dead now because the result of the incident is irrelevant. A review all comes down to whether Mercedes can provide new information to demonstrate that an investigation should've taken place. It's absurd that Mercedes can't just protest this based on the fact that Masi is a fucking moron.

[npham]

Well, they didn't have the onboard video of Max's steering wheel which is probably why it was never investigated. This is new evidence and why Mercedes has petitioned for this move to be reviewed.

Also, rage2 already mentioned that Max went into that corner 40km/h faster than any other lap and then got on the gas after Lewis backed out. It's wild you guys are so blinded by your hate of Lewis that you can't see it was clearly intentional and absolutely the right move for Max. He had nothing to lose by pushing him 3-4 car widths off the track - it was a win/win for him. Either retain the position or crash them both out and he probably wins the championship by default.

[Misterman]

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Well, they didn't have the onboard video of Max's steering wheel which is probably why it was never investigated. This is new evidence and why Mercedes has petitioned for this move to be reviewed.

Also, rage2 already mentioned that Max went into that corner 40km/h faster than any other lap and then got on the gas after Lewis backed out. It's wild you guys are so blinded by your hate of Lewis that you can't see it was clearly intentional and absolutely the right move for Max. He had nothing to lose by pushing him 3-4 car widths off the track - it was a win/win for him. Either retain the position or crash them both out and he probably wins the championship by default.

But if they decided to investigate at the moment of incident, wouldn't that give them reasoning to get the onboard? Either way, now that we are here, the onboard does not show any steering wheel opening by Max as everyone was speculating. So there isn't anything there to warrant a new review. I'm guessing they are going to try and use something in the telemetry data to make their case for review.

I maintain as I always have that Max intended to squeeze Lewis hard to the outside and potentially get him off track. I think him leaving the track himself was the part that was not intended. All that does is destroy the speed he had left, and ruin his tires leaving him unable to attack again if Lewis managed to squeak by.