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Thread: P.Eng's - what OIL AND GAS tasks require a P.Eng. to complete them?

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    Default P.Eng's - what OIL AND GAS tasks require a P.Eng. to complete them?

    Having a discussion at work about tasks in the oil and gas industry that require a P.Eng. to either complete them, or review the work of the person who does them.

    I don't know if there's a list anywhere, that would end this debate really fast. Going from memory, I think on the drilling side, things like casing design, Well Control, EPZ/ERP calculations probably do. Pipeline design? Frac Modelling? Frac Planning Zone calculations?

    I think reserves reporting requires P.Eng too.

    Anyone know if there's a simple list or guideline for this kind of thing?

    I'm primarily focused on the upstream "wells to plant" side of things, but would be interested to read anything on this as it relates to the petroleum industry in Alberta or Canada.
    Stupid people focus on the math, smart people focus on the information.

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    Reserves is a big one
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
    Originally posted by Toma
    fact.

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    For me, it's mostly reserves bookings.

    APEGA has been pushing pretty hard to have basically everything under the sun authenticated (stamped) including items that are digital only. Basically any professional work product covering everything from a standard report to engineering interpretations.

    This link explains it well.

    Answer the following three questions to determine whether an engineering or geoscience output is a PWP that must be authenticated (stamped):

    • Does the engineering or geoscience output contain technical information?
    • Is the technical information complete for the intended purpose of the output?
    • Will others rely on the technical information related to the output’s intended purpose?

    If the answer is yes for all three questions, authentication is required.
    I think it really depends on the size of the organization you work for. Some care a lot, some don't.

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    I guess I should start with these parts of the APEGA website:
    https://www.apega.ca/members/document-authentication
    https://www.apega.ca/members/ppmp
    Stupid people focus on the math, smart people focus on the information.

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    wells to plant?

    Mechanical P Eng. - Plot plan, PFD, P&ID, Line list, GA's, Isometrics, Typical drawings, they have to review erosional calcs, flare study's, line sizing, vessel sizing for retention etc...
    Stress P Eng. - Usually has a report they sign, and depending on the job they will sign GA's/Iso's.. in my experience
    Structural P Eng. - Piling/Steel drawings
    Electrical P Eng. - lol that list is long and i don't know what half of the drawings are... i'm sure i could copy and paste it in if you wanted.
    Pipeline - Different for U/G vs A/G... We do alot of above ground thermal, and they're just like doing and plant job really. P&ID's GA's etc, but we add in the pipeline profile drawings...

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    I meant to say "plant gate". I'm personally not going to work on anything inside a plant or licensed facility. I ain't no facilities engineer. Although that list is pretty good for that stuff.
    Stupid people focus on the math, smart people focus on the information.

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    Aside from a reserve report I can’t tell you the last time I interacted with an authenticated document.

    Sounds like the kind of thing I hope my facilities engineers do right.
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
    Originally posted by Toma
    fact.

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    I think there's something with casing design and well control, although maybe that was an internal guideline at the company where we cared about that?
    Stupid people focus on the math, smart people focus on the information.

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    I’ve sure there are tons of things that require it, it just seems like it never comes up in my role in practice.

    But I’m about as far removed from engineering as it gets.

    I can say for certain I have never authenticated anything in my life.
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
    Originally posted by Toma
    fact.

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    There was a very short period where my company asked me to sign a hard-copy of drilling programs that they then scanned and kept on file somewhere. Although again, I'm not sure if that was an internal requirement or an apega thing. There were a couple of years where I had a lot of well-control things happening, both planned and unplanned, and we were always careful to have a P.Eng. give written approval for that. Pretty fun projects actually, really enjoyed them, aside from the 3Am phone calls . . .
    Stupid people focus on the math, smart people focus on the information.

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    Lots of stuff in pipeline design needs stamping. Alignment sheets, site-specific crossing designs, major trenchless installations, stress analysis, that sort of thing.

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    Automation and controls - we stamp panel designs, design documents, shut down keys, as well as some of our network architecture. Basically anything that involves the process and safety control systems
    Nolan

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSlow View Post
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    Frac Modelling? Frac Planning Zone calculations?
    Nothing on the frac side including models, treatment design, or D83 calcs ever required any sort of P.Eng or stamping based on the AER's requirements. However, with APEGA's November 2020 updates (that you quoted) basically anything that can be considered technical must be stamped. There has obviously been huge push back on this and as far as I know the AER hasn't taken a stance or made a statement on what is required. Things like facilities, reserves, and pipeline designs are always stamped but as far as D&C nothing was ever required unless it was company specific. A few of my tool companies have started stamping their technical review and post job report documents for me, and one of my clients has started stamping D&C programs but that was an internal initiative. I've had many in depth conversations about this topic with various contacts and its pretty surprising the range of people's feelings on it especially from people who should be huge proponents of it like consulting firms.

    APEGA suckered another $600 out of me to make sure I was set up to stamp anything I do with my own permit to practice, so their money grab techniques are working.


    Quote Originally Posted by APEGA or some shit
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Answer the following three questions to determine whether an engineering or geoscience output is a PWP that must be authenticated (stamped):

    Does the engineering or geoscience output contain technical information?
    Is the technical information complete for the intended purpose of the output?
    Will others rely on the technical information related to the output’s intended purpose?

    If the answer is yes for all three questions, authentication is required.
    Quote Originally Posted by rage2
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    ...Last thing I want is someone reading my posts and losing their cock over it...
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    Meh, they all look like Jackie Chan to me
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    Which one has best efficacy at enlarging my dank?

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    Quote Originally Posted by schurchill39 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Nothing on the frac side including models, treatment design, or D83 calcs ever required any sort of P.Eng or stamping based on the AER's requirements. However, with APEGA's November 2020 updates (that you quoted) basically anything that can be considered technical must be stamped. There has obviously been huge push back on this and as far as I know the AER hasn't taken a stance or made a statement on what is required. Things like facilities, reserves, and pipeline designs are always stamped but as far as D&C nothing was ever required unless it was company specific. A few of my tool companies have started stamping their technical review and post job report documents for me, and one of my clients has started stamping D&C programs but that was an internal initiative. I've had many in depth conversations about this topic with various contacts and its pretty surprising the range of people's feelings on it especially from people who should be huge proponents of it like consulting firms.

    APEGA suckered another $600 out of me to make sure I was set up to stamp anything I do with my own permit to practice, so their money grab techniques are working.
    I suspect its more likely there will just be less practicing engineers in O&G than more stamping.

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    Electrical & Control Drawings, but it's been a while for me so I might be missing some...

    Instrumentation Index
    Shutdown Key
    Single Line Diagrams
    Schematics (Motor Wiring, Control Panels, Junction Boxes, etc)
    Building Layouts
    Area Classification (This one is pretty big, don't mess this one up.)
    Cable and Conduit Schedules, Voltage Drop Calculations
    Conduit Pull Calculations
    Power System Studies / Arc Flash Studies

    The three question test is pretty the one I have to think of. It's 600 now? I haven't even opened the letter, got it yesterday.

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    Basically everything above ground. Underground who cares? Its all pixie dust and unicorn farts

    Unless you're injecting acid gas....
    Last edited by riander5; 02-02-2021 at 06:02 PM.

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