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Thread: Porsche says: To Hell with EVs!

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    Default Porsche says: To Hell with EVs!

    Well, they didnít really say that - but when Porsche speaks, everyone should listen.

    https://www.autoblog.com/2021/02/23/...ynthetic-fuel/

    Emissions at EV levels. Maintain that sweet sweet ICE.

    However - open minds are open - total efficiency is still down so itíll likely be cheaper to operate an EV and purchase one too. Of course weíre talking in the next 5-10 years.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age."

    -H.P. Lovecraft

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    "Synthetic fuels are made by extracting hydrogen via renewable energy, and capturing it liquid form with carbon dioxide."
    .

    There are many ways of making synthetic fuels. Some of them even make sense. Their plan has PhD written all over it. 15 steps to a fuel that's $5/L.
    Last edited by ThePenIsMightier; 02-23-2021 at 03:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePenIsMightier View Post
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    "Synthetic fuels are made by extracting hydrogen via renewable energy, and capturing it liquid form with carbon dioxide."
    .

    There are many ways of making synthetic fuels. Stone of them even make sense. Their plan has PhD written all over it. 15 steps to a fuel that's $5/L.
    That explains why they only have a goal of producing 32,000gal by next year.

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    Incredible, they'll end up using hydrocarbons to make hydrogen, then using that to make . . . .hydrocarbons? Is this what people are talking about when they use the phrase "Circular Economy"?

    This could be their logo.
    snake.png
    Quote Originally Posted by Tik-Tok View Post
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    I'd be lying if I said I didn't disagree.

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    This is the 3rd gen bio fuel. F1 has been dabbling in this for quite some time already.

    https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...BsjKyPiFf.html

    There are three generations of biofuels. The first generation, he explains, were “largely made from food stock” – crops grown especially for fuel. But that wasn’t sustainable and it brought up ethical issues.

    Second-generation biofuels “either use food waste, the husks of corn for example, or biomass, for example forestry waste, or indeed household waste.

    “Finally, there are third-generation biofuels, sometimes called the e-fuels or synthetic fuel, and without going into too much chemistry, these are the more advanced fuels.

    "They’re often called drop-in fuels because you can effectively just put them into any engine, without modification, whereas engines that run on extreme ethanol mixes, such as used in Brazil [for road cars], require alteration.”
    The goal is to harness renewable energy to create this fuel so that it can be used for all existing ICE engines. F1 is already using 2nd generation fuels today, 10% of the fuel for this upcoming season is 2nd gen. They're ironing out the timeline for going 100% 3rd gen. All the current engine manufacturers in F1 have already tested 3rd gen successfully. It's all about scaling up production and lowering costs at this point.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
    I have gone above and beyond what I should rightfully have to do to protect my good name

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    Awesome.

    What’s the effective knock resistance of these fuels?

    Are we talking race gas so Porsche can make some 14:1 600 HP NA GT cars with only 6 cylinders in a horizontally opposed configuration?!

    Say that fast 10 times.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age."

    -H.P. Lovecraft

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkane View Post
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    Awesome.

    What’s the effective knock resistance of these fuels?

    Are we talking race gas so Porsche can make some 14:1 600 HP NA GT cars with only 6 cylinders in a horizontally opposed configuration?!

    Say that fast 10 times.
    I said it 10 times fast, and came in my pants...

    Do not recommend anyone saying this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vengie View Post
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    I said it 10 times fast, and came in my pants...

    Do not recommend anyone saying this.
    Approved.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age."

    -H.P. Lovecraft

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkane View Post
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    Awesome.

    What’s the effective knock resistance of these fuels?

    Are we talking race gas so Porsche can make some 14:1 600 HP NA GT cars with only 6 cylinders in a horizontally opposed configuration?!

    Say that fast 10 times.
    I know for certain that some synthetic diesel fuels have substantially higher cetane levels than conventional. That makes me think that synthetic gasolines might have higher octane potential...
    But, I don't directly know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rage2 View Post
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    This is the 3rd gen bio fuel. F1 has been dabbling in this for quite some time already.

    https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...BsjKyPiFf.html


    The goal is to harness renewable energy to create this fuel so that it can be used for all existing ICE engines. F1 is already using 2nd generation fuels today, 10% of the fuel for this upcoming season is 2nd gen. They're ironing out the timeline for going 100% 3rd gen. All the current engine manufacturers in F1 have already tested 3rd gen successfully. It's all about scaling up production and lowering costs at this point.
    What a complete crock of shit. Ethanol with corrosion inhibitors is a much better source of "renewable ICE fuels" if we want to be silly about it, "1st generation" bullshit aside. This is like renaming 4G as "5G Long Range" or whatever the hell, pure marketing crap. And virtually any modern car has enough injector to run straight ethanol.

    We need better renewable energy sources. Then you can either manufacture hydrocarbons by pulling co2 from the air, or just go straight electric.

    This whole "gen" thing is just typical FIA garbage, as stated, a project likely designed by a phd with.little real world use. We've already been at this technological level for a long time, the energy to power it is the problem, and will continue to be for decades (or just build nukes, but you know we can't have that).

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    Yeah, any wildly energy intensive method of producing liquid fuels is kind of stupid and folks could just skip straight to EV for almost any use case, including motorsports. I'm a big proponent of "green" projects but this is greenwashed marketing at best.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tik-Tok View Post
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    I'd be lying if I said I didn't disagree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkane View Post
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    Awesome.

    What’s the effective knock resistance of these fuels?

    Are we talking race gas so Porsche can make some 14:1 600 HP NA GT cars with only 6 cylinders in a horizontally opposed configuration?!

    Say that fast 10 times.
    According to the FIA, it's lower. They've effectively have to create new formulations to meet the octane needs of F1. The original "gen3" test fuel they got based on the hydrogen CO2 formula was only seeing 95 RON. Current F1 fuels are 105 RON.

    Quote Originally Posted by zechs View Post
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    What a complete crock of shit. Ethanol with corrosion inhibitors is a much better source of "renewable ICE fuels" if we want to be silly about it, "1st generation" bullshit aside. This is like renaming 4G as "5G Long Range" or whatever the hell, pure marketing crap. And virtually any modern car has enough injector to run straight ethanol.

    We need better renewable energy sources. Then you can either manufacture hydrocarbons by pulling co2 from the air, or just go straight electric.

    This whole "gen" thing is just typical FIA garbage, as stated, a project likely designed by a phd with.little real world use. We've already been at this technological level for a long time, the energy to power it is the problem, and will continue to be for decades (or just build nukes, but you know we can't have that).
    If you read the article, Gen1 and Gen2 is pretty much the same thing. Gen1 was unsustainable because it was literally using food sources to create fuel, while Gen2 was waste products. Gen3 is fully synthetic.

    The generations is just a nomenclature to make sense of progress. It wasn't FIA derived, it's what most of Europe uses.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
    I have gone above and beyond what I should rightfully have to do to protect my good name

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePenIsMightier View Post
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    There are many ways of making synthetic fuels. Some of them even make sense. Their plan has PhD written all over it. 15 steps to a fuel that's $5/L.
    Would our 91 octane not be $5/L by 2040 if economy is scale is lost when all passenger cars you can buy at that point are all EVs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xtrema View Post
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    Would our 91 octane not be $5/L by 2040 if economy is scale is lost when all passenger cars you can buy at that point are all EVs?
    In the event that all you could buy were EV's... Maybe?
    It's not a statement anyone could prove wrong, but I don't think that's the same as it being an accurate statement.

    I'm a long way from believing that ICE vehicles will not be for sale within 19 years.

    And, the economy of scale doesn't sound like the correct term. Refining capacity (supply) would be so massively higher than demand, perhaps gasoline would be $0.01/gallon. It's some crystal ball shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePenIsMightier View Post
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    In the event that all you could buy were EV's... Maybe?
    It's not a statement anyone could prove wrong, but I don't think that's the same as it being an accurate statement.

    I'm a long way from believing that ICE vehicles will not be for sale within 19 years.

    And, the economy of scale doesn't sound like the correct term. Refining capacity (supply) would be so massively higher than demand, perhaps gasoline would be $0.01/gallon. It's some crystal ball shit.
    Gasoline will be $5/L due to high tax on it with the goal of accelerating EV adoption/discouraging hydrocarbon consumption.

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    $5/L is coming brothers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tik-Tok View Post
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    I'd be lying if I said I didn't disagree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSlow View Post
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    $5/L is coming brothers.
    Well the money printing alone will get us there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjblair View Post
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    That explains why they only have a goal of producing 32,000gal by next year.
    under promise, over delivery

    Oldest trick in the book


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    1,000 horsepower hummer should be out soon.

    Technically, there is no limit to horsepower when talking electric.
    Lake Mead 1082 feet

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePenIsMightier View Post
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    "Synthetic fuels are made by extracting hydrogen via renewable energy, and capturing it liquid form with carbon dioxide."
    .

    There are many ways of making synthetic fuels. Some of them even make sense. Their plan has PhD written all over it. 15 steps to a fuel that's $5/L.
    when you take a look at cost and how you would get it broadly distributed, plan has a few major, and likely unsurmountable, hurdles.

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