Buying Land, Building Multiple Houses + Shop, questions!

[ExtraSlow]

Where the fuck is stone pine?

[ThePenIsMightier]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Where the fuck is stone pine?

Small gated community somewhat attached to the edge of Glencoe Golf Club.

[ExtraSlow]

Sounds like the kind of place I haven't heard of. But then again, these fake neighborhoods in the country don't really count.
I have a buddy who lives in "Hawks Nest Landing" and he's a good guy, but....

[ThePenIsMightier]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Sounds like the kind of place I haven't heard of. But then again, these fake neighborhoods in the country don't really count.
I have a buddy who lives in "Hawks Nest Landing" and he's a good guy, but....

I think I know where that is!!
Isn't it on the road to Azuridge Estate Hotel?

[ExtraSlow]

I don't think Tha6s the same road, but same area.

[ThePenIsMightier]

Stonepine is funny. You live in a duplex but wouldn't consider yourself "poor", right?
Well, there are many many duplexes in Stonepine, so you are in good company! Multi-million dollar duplexes with insane garages and turrets and rock work on their rock work.

[Maxt]

I was going to build something like what you are planning a few years ago, and even got to see one that was finished. After I put it all together, the MD told me it was never going to happen, that they wouldn't allow a post frame structure house with a attached shop/garage on country residential. There is one near Black Diamond that was done in a similar concept, and they ended up having to ruin the initial concept of the building with firewalls and such.
I have done 2 post frame shops over the last 12 years and have learned a lot of detail that makes them either end up decent, or not decent, I have some opinions on some of the builders.
The engineering is important to make sure the governing district doesn't pick it apart and delay it. Make sure the person who stamped the drawings is not a rent a stamp and it's legitimate. There is only one place I found that is recognized as a pole building structural expert that the MD's will accept . On my second build, I had to have full engineering done, because I was putting a car in the shop. I asked the MD what's the difference and they said it's an accessory building and not a farm shop so full engineering is required, and no ands, if's or buts. I had the building drawn to overkill for a pole building by a draftsmen, when the MD asked for it to be stamped, I asked them who I could take it to. They wouldn't give me name because they said they're not allowed to direct business to companies as it shows favouritism. I phoned more than 2 dozen engineering companies and had 10+ meetings trying to get the prints stamped. When I took the stamped prints in, the MD said, yeah that's the guy who does all the pole buildings that they pass. It ate up 8 months to get it stamped to meet the MD's requirements, in the end it was built exactly how it was originally designed. When choosing land, anything over 10 acres can have an agricultural status and it gives you a lot of freedom to do whatever. After it was built the MD informed me that because I have 10.5 acres, I should have called it a farm shop, had a single chicken and I could have saved 4k in engineering fees, again, after it was completed. Real helpful, don't count on the governing body to help you navigate the rules at all.
I found the footing have to be really deep to stop the structure from moving around with frost. I had a drilling company come to drill my foundation holes, and it was winter. The plans called for 12 foot holes with a concrete footing poured in that was 2 feet deep, so 10 feet of pole in the earth. When the holes were drilled, we found the frost that year was down 8 feet. I have the pressure treated poles sitting on a 2 foot concrete base in each hole. Nobody wanted to do the pour for the concrete footings in winter for me, so myself and my son who was 8 at the time, used a Princess auto concrete mixer to mix concrete with hot water, calcium chloride and we did the footings ourselves. The kid worked all day, we mixed 55 bags of concrete that day in -10C weather, at 5pm, he asked if he could have a nap. Some of the pole building places will tell you that concrete footings are no good because it rots out the post and pea gravel is better as a base because it drains. The problem is, that is that pea gravel base load and compaction test probably won't meet what the builder will ask for. Once the bases were load tested, the carpenter came and it went up really quickly. The guy I used on the second build wasn't the the cheapest for the labour portion but he did a great job. He didn't want to carry the materials, so he let me buy them and he just did the work.
The overhead doors are where the mistakes get made if you don't know what you are looking at. In hindsight, I would hire a standalone door contractor to supply and install the doors and not leave it to a general building supplier to get the parts right when there is standard lift, vertical lift and high lift with all sorts of opener clearance issues, spring headroom and structural brace requirements.

[eblend]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I went to a house in Stonepine the other day, (speaking of plebs and basement and upper appliances, etc.) It had 2 full size fridges,1 full size freezer and 2 wine cooler / smaller fridges on assorted floors. All Sub-Zero.
Kind of funny.

I like to spend money as much as the next guy on things that are useful, none of that sounds useful haha. Some people just spend money to get rid of it...unfortunately I don't have that much haha. It's like those super rich old folks who think furniture from the 60s looks cool and spend thousands on it....the more expensive, the uglier.

[killramos]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I was going to build something like what you are planning a few years ago, and even got to see one that was finished. After I put it all together, the MD told me it was never going to happen, that they wouldn't allow a post frame structure house with a attached shop/garage on country residential. There is one near Black Diamond that was done in a similar concept, and they ended up having to ruin the initial concept of the building with firewalls and such.
I have done 2 post frame shops over the last 12 years and have learned a lot of detail that makes them either end up decent, or not decent, I have some opinions on some of the builders.
The engineering is important to make sure the governing district doesn't pick it apart and delay it. Make sure the person who stamped the drawings is not a rent a stamp and it's legitimate. There is only one place I found that is recognized as a pole building structural expert that the MD's will accept . On my second build, I had to have full engineering done, because I was putting a car in the shop. I asked the MD what's the difference and they said it's an accessory building and not a farm shop so full engineering is required, and no ands, if's or buts. I had the building drawn to overkill for a pole building by a draftsmen, when the MD asked for it to be stamped, I asked them who I could take it to. They wouldn't give me name because they said they're not allowed to direct business to companies as it shows favouritism. I phoned more than 2 dozen engineering companies and had 10+ meetings trying to get the prints stamped. When I took the stamped prints in, the MD said, yeah that's the guy who does all the pole buildings that they pass. It ate up 8 months to get it stamped to meet the MD's requirements, in the end it was built exactly how it was originally designed. When choosing land, anything over 10 acres can have an agricultural status and it gives you a lot of freedom to do whatever. After it was built the MD informed me that because I have 10.5 acres, I should have called it a farm shop, had a single chicken and I could have saved 4k in engineering fees, again, after it was completed. Real helpful, don't count on the governing body to help you navigate the rules at all.
I found the footing have to be really deep to stop the structure from moving around with frost. I had a drilling company come to drill my foundation holes, and it was winter. The plans called for 12 foot holes with a concrete footing poured in that was 2 feet deep, so 10 feet of pole in the earth. When the holes were drilled, we found the frost that year was down 8 feet. I have the pressure treated poles sitting on a 2 foot concrete base in each hole. Nobody wanted to do the pour for the concrete footings in winter for me, so myself and my son who was 8 at the time, used a Princess auto concrete mixer to mix concrete with hot water, calcium chloride and we did the footings ourselves. The kid worked all day, we mixed 55 bags of concrete that day in -10C weather, at 5pm, he asked if he could have a nap. Some of the pole building places will tell you that concrete footings are no good because it rots out the post and pea gravel is better as a base because it drains. The problem is, that is that pea gravel base load and compaction test probably won't meet what the builder will ask for. Once the bases were load tested, the carpenter came and it went up really quickly. The guy I used on the second build wasn't the the cheapest for the labour portion but he did a great job. He didn't want to carry the materials, so he let me buy them and he just did the work.
The overhead doors are where the mistakes get made if you don't know what you are looking at. In hindsight, I would hire a standalone door contractor to supply and install the doors and not leave it to a general building supplier to get the parts right when there is standard lift, vertical lift and high lift with all sorts of opener clearance issues, spring headroom and structural brace requirements.

There was a lot of text there I didn’t read. But does a barndominium like this cost more or less than a aircraft hangar style Quonset?

[ExtraSlow]

well it's waaaay more awesome than a quonset.

[killramos]

I think quonsets are cool.

[Maxt]

The area where it sits was a soft soil horse paddock area before, I had to do a borrow pit excavation to build up that area and get ground firm enough to support the building. The clay excavation/compaction and getting the holes done in winter added to the cost somewhat. I had budgeted 125k that included at 10 percent fudge factor, and IIRC, it came in at 130k finished when it was all said and done with me doing the wiring, gas and heating installation. I had a significant utility installation length to overcome, the MD allows for homeowner permits, which lessened the cost of that portion. The cost per foot goes down the bigger it is. My first shop was slightly less than half the size(1200sqft) of this one(2800sqft) and the first one was 75k finished. Keep in mind material was a bit cheaper at that time and that one required no earthwork.

[eblend]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I was going to build something like what you are planning a few years ago, and even got to see one that was finished. After I put it all together, the MD told me it was never going to happen, that they wouldn't allow a post frame structure house with a attached shop/garage on country residential. There is one near Black Diamond that was done in a similar concept, and they ended up having to ruin the initial concept of the building with firewalls and such.
I have done 2 post frame shops over the last 12 years and have learned a lot of detail that makes them either end up decent, or not decent, I have some opinions on some of the builders.
The engineering is important to make sure the governing district doesn't pick it apart and delay it. Make sure the person who stamped the drawings is not a rent a stamp and it's legitimate. There is only one place I found that is recognized as a pole building structural expert that the MD's will accept . On my second build, I had to have full engineering done, because I was putting a car in the shop. I asked the MD what's the difference and they said it's an accessory building and not a farm shop so full engineering is required, and no ands, if's or buts. I had the building drawn to overkill for a pole building by a draftsmen, when the MD asked for it to be stamped, I asked them who I could take it to. They wouldn't give me name because they said they're not allowed to direct business to companies as it shows favouritism. I phoned more than 2 dozen engineering companies and had 10+ meetings trying to get the prints stamped. When I took the stamped prints in, the MD said, yeah that's the guy who does all the pole buildings that they pass. It ate up 8 months to get it stamped to meet the MD's requirements, in the end it was built exactly how it was originally designed. When choosing land, anything over 10 acres can have an agricultural status and it gives you a lot of freedom to do whatever. After it was built the MD informed me that because I have 10.5 acres, I should have called it a farm shop, had a single chicken and I could have saved 4k in engineering fees, again, after it was completed. Real helpful, don't count on the governing body to help you navigate the rules at all.
I found the footing have to be really deep to stop the structure from moving around with frost. I had a drilling company come to drill my foundation holes, and it was winter. The plans called for 12 foot holes with a concrete footing poured in that was 2 feet deep, so 10 feet of pole in the earth. When the holes were drilled, we found the frost that year was down 8 feet. I have the pressure treated poles sitting on a 2 foot concrete base in each hole. Nobody wanted to do the pour for the concrete footings in winter for me, so myself and my son who was 8 at the time, used a Princess auto concrete mixer to mix concrete with hot water, calcium chloride and we did the footings ourselves. The kid worked all day, we mixed 55 bags of concrete that day in -10C weather, at 5pm, he asked if he could have a nap. Some of the pole building places will tell you that concrete footings are no good because it rots out the post and pea gravel is better as a base because it drains. The problem is, that is that pea gravel base load and compaction test probably won't meet what the builder will ask for. Once the bases were load tested, the carpenter came and it went up really quickly. The guy I used on the second build wasn't the the cheapest for the labour portion but he did a great job. He didn't want to carry the materials, so he let me buy them and he just did the work.
The overhead doors are where the mistakes get made if you don't know what you are looking at. In hindsight, I would hire a standalone door contractor to supply and install the doors and not leave it to a general building supplier to get the parts right when there is standard lift, vertical lift and high lift with all sorts of opener clearance issues, spring headroom and structural brace requirements.

That's cool, thanks for the info. Sounds like you more or less did the whole thing yourself right from the get-go, which isn't what I am doing. I am paying a reputable company to basically put up a shell of the building. They provide all stamped engineering drawings ect. They do all the standing seam roof, install all the windows and doors, including garage doors. The building is basically built to lock-up. It's a structure that's built, house wrapped, fully roofed, windowed and doored, and is ready for me to do the rest. I am responsible for the siding, all the plumbing, electrical, gas, all interior framing and finishing, the concrete pad ect. It's going to be a long project. They told me a county has never rejected them, so hopefully it will go through. I think the fact that it looks like a real house vs a square shop will help as well. The house isn't exactly post-frame, it's built using post and beam construction, so a bit different. The "foundation" is also on screw piles instead of concrete footings, which I personally think is a better approach as each pile is screwed as far down as needed until it reaches a specific resistance, which determines it's load bearing factor, so each screw pile will have different length. I knew my limits and building the whole structure from scratch was not something I was interested in, but I can do most of the rest, so once I have a roof over my head I can work on the inside at my own pace.

[Maxt]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

That's cool, thanks for the info. Sounds like you more or less did the whole thing yourself right from the get-go, which isn't what I am doing. I am paying a reputable company to basically put up a shell of the building. They provide all stamped engineering drawings ect. They do all the standing seam roof, install all the windows and doors, including garage doors. The building is basically built to lock-up. It's a structure that's built, house wrapped, fully roofed, windowed and doored, and is ready for me to do the rest. I am responsible for the siding, all the plumbing, electrical, gas, all interior framing and finishing, the concrete pad ect. It's going to be a long project. They told me a county has never rejected them, so hopefully it will go through. I think the fact that it looks like a real house vs a square shop will help as well. The house isn't exactly post-frame, it's built using post and beam construction, so a bit different. The "foundation" is also on screw piles instead of concrete footings, which I personally think is a better approach as each pile is screwed as far down as needed until it reaches a specific resistance, which determines it's load bearing factor, so each screw pile will have different length. I knew my limits and building the whole structure from scratch was not something I was interested in, but I can do most of the rest, so once I have a roof over my head I can work on the inside at my own pace.

If that's the case, visit the site every day or just stay there for the build.... Have a 4 foot level and long tape measure with you when you're there...


The second one I did a lot the stuff myself because of what happened on the first build. The company I chose on the first shop was the most expensive of the prices I got, and I though I was getting a premium build. The glossy brochures and advertising was good. The finished product was terribly disappointing and in the end they tried to put me on ignore, but I went by their offices a few times and confronted the owner with the issues. They finally came out one day and did some repairs. The concrete guy I used fixed a lot of their screw ups so he could pour the floor properly, and he made it decent in the end, but I've never believed i ever got the product I paid for. The crew I had couldn't even read english let alone blue prints, they put the man doors and window in wrong, then bitched that they had to waste a day redoing the framing. It was cold when they built that one, so I was working a lot and couldn't be there when they were working. Every day I would come home and have to make a list of the mistakes they made that day.
The screw pile thing is interesting, and my concrete guy does that too, but he didn't think it was a good idea on the moved in ground that I had done, thats the reason I did the deep hole concrete base to get down to undisturbed earth.

[eblend]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If that's the case, visit the site every day or just stay there for the build.... Have a 4 foot level and long tape measure with you when you're there...


The second one I did a lot the stuff myself because of what happened on the first build. The company I chose on the first shop was the most expensive of the prices I got, and I though I was getting a premium build. The glossy brochures and advertising was good. The finished product was terribly disappointing and in the end they tried to put me on ignore, but I went by their offices a few times and confronted the owner with the issues. They finally came out one day and did some repairs. The concrete guy I used fixed a lot of their screw ups so he could pour the floor properly, and he made it decent in the end, but I've never believed i ever got the product I paid for. The crew I had couldn't even read english let alone blue prints, they put the man doors and window in wrong, then bitched that they had to waste a day redoing the framing. It was cold when they built that one, so I was working a lot and couldn't be there when they were working. Every day I would come home and have to make a list of the mistakes they made that day.
The screw pile thing is interesting, and my concrete guy does that too, but he didn't think it was a good idea on the moved in ground that I had done, thats the reason I did the deep hole concrete base to get down to undisturbed earth.

Yah I plan to basically live there and visit daily, mostly because I enjoy watching construction. My dad said he is going to setup a tent and live during there haha, he is retired with nothing better to do. Hope it goes well, they have good reviews, so we will see.

[Maxt]

All the pole buildings I looked at in the past had a fair degree of runout and out of square that was visible in the finishing. The screw piles might make it easier to keep the frame square and plumb. As they start to frame it and the weight gets added it tends to pull the post of out position, also the trusses blow around a bit in the wind. Once the shape is built into the frame its really hard to correct later. You can see in the pictures above that the carpenter used screw anchor points and ratchet straps to keep the structure square as he framed it because the wind was up. I checked all the corners when he was done the cladding and its dead nuts on square.
There was something specific about the way the boards were put into the walls in order to meet modern building codes for the insulation but I can't recall what it was about. I did put down 4" thick foam panel insulation underneath the bottom board that the concrete butts up to reduce the heat loss around the building. I still need to backfill around the shop with gravel yet to further reduce that loss.

[prae]

I found some sweet inspo for @eblend 's upcoming pole barn build. Check out this million dollar manse in Sturgeon County https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/2...on-county-none

The zillow gone wild thread is https://twitter.com/zillowgonewild/s...40630481412104

[eblend]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I found some sweet inspo for @eblend 's upcoming pole barn build. Check out this million dollar manse in Sturgeon County https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/2...on-county-none

The zillow gone wild thread is https://twitter.com/zillowgonewild/s...40630481412104

That's nasty, exposed pipes everywhere, eww

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

All the pole buildings I looked at in the past had a fair degree of runout and out of square that was visible in the finishing. The screw piles might make it easier to keep the frame square and plumb. As they start to frame it and the weight gets added it tends to pull the post of out position, also the trusses blow around a bit in the wind. Once the shape is built into the frame its really hard to correct later. You can see in the pictures above that the carpenter used screw anchor points and ratchet straps to keep the structure square as he framed it because the wind was up. I checked all the corners when he was done the cladding and its dead nuts on square.
There was something specific about the way the boards were put into the walls in order to meet modern building codes for the insulation but I can't recall what it was about. I did put down 4" thick foam panel insulation underneath the bottom board that the concrete butts up to reduce the heat loss around the building. I still need to backfill around the shop with gravel yet to further reduce that loss.

Do you have any info on land surveyors? I found a company to do my septic system and they can also do grading, but require an outside land surveyor for steak out. I don't really understand the whole process. I believe I have to find a company that will take my general plans, and put steaks in the ground to mark out where material needs to be removed/added...and then the grading people will follow those to make the ground flat..that sounds about right? My builder also needs some steaks in place if I want my building at a specific location....which I do more or less, 100 ft from one end of property and like 40 feet from another, at a 45% angle...not sure what's all involved.

[prae]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

That's nasty, exposed pipes everywhere, eww



Do you have any info on land surveyors? I found a company to do my septic system and they can also do grading, but require an outside land surveyor for steak out. I don't really understand the whole process. I believe I have to find a company that will take my general plans, and put steaks in the ground to mark out where material needs to be removed/added...and then the grading people will follow those to make the ground flat..that sounds about right? My builder also needs some steaks in place if I want my building at a specific location....which I do more or less, 100 ft from one end of property and like 40 feet from another, at a 45% angle...not sure what's all involved.

Your architect should be providing a site drawing that locates your proposed structure on your property. To do so, you'll need a survey of the land first (to capture elevations and lot location), and then with that drawing, you can hire a land surveyor to stake out the proposed home (after your permits are approved).

Most survey companies should offer this service. I don't have any specific recommendations.

One option you may find some value in would be booking a paid consultation with a custom homebuilder. Melissa @ Veranda Custom Homes offers 30 & 60 minute sessions: https://www.theexpert.com/expert/verandaestatehomes

Clearly those are more focused on interior design but she and her husband and business partner Rob have been in the business for many years and if you make it clear at the outset what you're looking to learn, I expect you could get Rob on the call as well.

I know some other builders that would be knowledgeable and helpful in this regard but I'm not aware of them offering paid consultation services and cannot volunteer their time for them.

Honestly your architect should be able to walk you through a lot of this; if they're not, you're either not getting what you paid for, or didn't pay for enough

[SKR]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I found some sweet inspo for @eblend 's upcoming pole barn build. Check out this million dollar manse in Sturgeon County https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/2...on-county-none

The zillow gone wild thread is https://twitter.com/zillowgonewild/s...40630481412104

I've realized all I want in life is to live in a warehouse and to have room to ride a bike around in it. Aside from that one bizarre bedroom and the propane barbecue I really like it.