Overtime

[bjstare]

In short, my response to OP question:


I'm in a client services (read: billable hours) industry, and while all of us salaried employees work more than 40hrs/week, it's extremely rare to get paid OT. Our comp and upward mobility make up for it though, more or less.

We also more often than not structure contracts around 40h/week billing, and although there's not usually a direct correlation between hours billed and hours worked, there is a correlation between $ billed and hours worked.

[Misterman]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'd rather not have "OT" pay as that just fucks with tax brackets if you end up with too much.

This is the craziest argument ever. I don't want extra money, because I spitefully don't want the government getting anything extra too.


I've never worked a job that didn't have 12 hour shifts. As a Contractor I have a set rate, and that's what I bill the customer no matter how many hours I work. It evened out with my regular time rate being so good, that it wasn't a big deal to not get paid OT. However now that the rates have gone to shit, they essentially want you to make less than a T4 employee, but also not get any benefits, vacation, pension, etc. I'm back to a T4 employee again now, OT is double time. But it's only on extra shifts, not on anything over 8 hours. Our shift schedule averages 42 hours per week.

OT is not mandatory, but it's also kind of mandatory. My position does not have enough qualified people, so vacation coverage is always covered by OT. If you want people covering your vacation time, you better plan to cover your cross shifts vacation.

[Darell_n]

Invention of salary was the original con scheme. The lazy should starve.

[Mitsu3000gt]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Invention of salary was the original con scheme. The lazy should starve.

It's pretty easy to be lazy as a contractor too, especially with WFH. You could bill for all kinds of hours that you aren't actually working. Also, if you submit time sheets monthly, your boss isn't going to remember if you worked 6 hours or 8 hours 25 days ago, so there is plenty of opportunity for the lazy or the dishonest depending on the situation. Some of the contractors I've worked with have been the laziest workers I have ever seen haha, but that is not to say that salaried workers can't be just as bad. If you're sitting in your office doing nothing, it doesn't really matter if you're salaried or hourly - you are still going to get paid to be there. I think in both cases as long as you're getting your work done, nobody is going to ask too many questions. As a contractor I never got performance reviews or anything like that either, so there was even less accountability compared to the salaried positions I've had - that may be different at other workplaces though.

[ercchry]

It’s funny how many people that get paid a salary actually think they’re “salaried” ...

You can’t just magically not get OT cause the Corp pays you your rate based on a set amount of hours... either you are a legally exempted professional, or you are not. Hourly, or salaried. It doesn’t matter. OT over 8hr/day AND 44hr/week... unless federally regulated corp and it’s over only 40hr/week (still 8hr/day)... for Alberta, Ontario gets boned with 44hr/week, no stipulation on daily hours. Some industries have different limits as well, like construction/trucking. Know your rights people!

[Proyecto2000]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

In my experience (O&G):

Salaried positions: OT is expected if needed without direct compensation, Often this more than balances out with various company perks like bonus days off, extra long weekends, getting told to go home at 2pm on a nice summer day occasionally, being able to leave for personal appointments like the Dentist without having to burn vacation days, etc. YMMV there of course.

This is how it works for me. I put in a ton of unpaid OT from September to end of March or whenever spring breakup hits and then I hope to get that time off with very short work days and 3 day weekend during spring and summer.

[dirtsniffer]

Do what's fair has treated me well in my professional career. Give and take and get shit done.

[jwslam]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I've never worked a job where my hours were billed to a client. But if My hours were getting billed, I'd want to get paid for them. Seems reasonable.

You've never met the clients where you have 20 hours of onboarding internal training about their HR policies, and they expect you to do that shit for free...

[schurchill39]

Personally I prefer to be salaried because then I can just focus on work and not on tracking time for pay. I always found that while on salary all of my short days, extended lunches, or appointments during work hours more than offset the 12-16 hour days I'd have to work when things got busy. I'm now straight billable time and if I have a short day because I need to go to the dentist or pick up my kids early I feel stressed that I'm "missing out on pay" even though when I work a 12 or 14 hour stretch in the next few days it all balances out.

As a contractor I think my ideal world would be a day rate no mater if you work 4 hours or 12 hours, but at the end of the day I would much rather be an employee making a salary and just get a hand shake "time in lieu".

Mind you as an engineer I'm not entitled to OT so maybe that's why I don't care?

[dirtsniffer]

I still try to go to the dentist at 7am. I swear coworkers of mine schedule it for 2pm to milk it as hard as they can

[nzwasp]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Personally I prefer to be salaried because then I can just focus on work and not on tracking time for pay. I always found that while on salary all of my short days, extended lunches, or appointments during work hours more than offset the 12-16 hour days I'd have to work when things got busy. I'm now straight billable time and if I have a short day because I need to go to the dentist or pick up my kids early I feel stressed that I'm "missing out on pay" even though when I work a 12 or 14 hour stretch in the next few days it all balances out.

As a contractor I think my ideal world would be a day rate no mater if you work 4 hours or 12 hours, but at the end of the day I would much rather be an employee making a salary and just get a hand shake "time in lieu".

Mind you as an engineer I'm not entitled to OT so maybe that's why I don't care?

Do engineers get paid more than techs? I’m not a tech or an engineer. Maybe beyond needs another salary survey.

[Brent.ff]

Whoever determined that ‘professionals’ shouldnt get OT was seriously riding their underlings...

[zechs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It’s funny how many people that get paid a salary actually think they’re “salaried” ...

You can’t just magically not get OT cause the Corp pays you your rate based on a set amount of hours... either you are a legally exempted professional, or you are not. Hourly, or salaried. It doesn’t matter. OT over 8hr/day AND 44hr/week... unless federally regulated corp and it’s over only 40hr/week (still 8hr/day)... for Alberta, Ontario gets boned with 44hr/week, no stipulation on daily hours. Some industries have different limits as well, like construction/trucking. Know your rights people!

This is the only answer.

As to the whole "do whats fair" deal, the employer only allows that because it benefits them. It never evens out.

Some people seem to suffer from a stockholm-esque conditioning when it comes to work and getting paid.

[killramos]

lol this thread is gold

[ExtraSlow]

My average dollars per hour is pretty good. But variable. Some weeks it's lower than I'd like. Luckily my posts/hour is high.

I was working 8;00-10:30 pm last night and 5:30-7:00 this morning too. Makes me a little grumpy, but I do plan to stop work for the week around 11:30 today.

[killramos]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

My average dollars per hour is pretty good. But variable. Some weeks it's lower than I'd like. Luckily my posts/hour is high.

I was working 8;00-10:30 pm last night and 5:30-7:00 this morning too. Makes me a little grumpy, but I do plan to stop work for the week around 11:30 today.

What a chump.

[ExtraSlow]

Probably true.

[tirebob]

I have personally never worried about working overtime as a salaried employee, but then again I was always the guy who would advance the fastest and was given the most leeway and freedom in my life, and I think it was largely do to the fact I always worked like I owned the business rather than for the business. When I wanted to take days off or come in late from an early morning round of golf or whatever, I never got any hassles. When I needed something for myself the owners I worked for would always accommodate. I also always ended up making more money on salary than my coworkers. My theory has always been I work harder than I am getting paid for and become so valuable as an employee that they can't see a way to do without me so they make sure I am happy and it has almost always worked, and the very rare instances it hasn't, I was always a desired employee by other companies and had zero issue getting a new gig.

If you have a good employer, they recognize and reward, even if it isn't always in terms of cash in hand, but if you have an employer that doesn't see it then move on. I never saw the point in complaining about where I work. I work for my own reputation and that is more valuable than anything, so when a company doesn't live up to my expectations there was always another one that I could go to.

[gmc72]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Years ago, Worley (and likely others) would charge clients a 1.5x premium for hours exceeding 40/week (or whatever that person's regular scheduled hours were). The employee would get 1.00 hours in their bank. Where did that money go? Straight to some Australian kangaroo fucker's profit center. It was a fictional charge for an additional cost that wasn't borne. Once the employee had exceeded 40hr in their time bank, then and only then would they receive 1.5x their wage as extra money on their next cheque and it would only be for the extra hours "spilling out" of their bank. This was technically legal although obviously shitty.
The NDP changed this in a really vague way, so they stopped stealing from their clients and employees.
I'm pretty sure the UCP reversed what the NDP did, so I think it's back.

*This whole thing only applied to employees who were eligible for 1.5x which was some (not all, for some reason) Designers/Tech's and not engineers.

Having worked for Worley until last July, we banked our OT hours and could get it paid out at 1.5X at anytime, or use time in lieu. However, once you reached a certain level (team lead), you lost the 1.5X benefit. This was while I was salary. When I got switched to hourly after a lay off and brought back, they changed the schedule to every other Friday off. On the weeks that were 36 hours weeks if we worked overtime, it was regular pay. I would only get OT if it was during a 44 hour week, but only on top of the 44 hours. Managers would try and get us to work the OT during the short week to save some money, but it rarely worked out.

[mrsingh]

Paid overtime, what is that?

...My hours aren't billable to anything but internal cost centers, I work for a producer.