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Thread: Get ready for the bailout - Air Transat merger with Air Canada cancelled

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSlow View Post
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    I think a private jet would be nice for vacations with the family or two families. Get 8 people on a small jet to Cancun no likes on either end, private minibus to hotel. That's a pretty small dream.

    Private jet to OKC for work was a revelation. That trip flying commercial is gross, and I've done it several times.
    I think there is a disconnect dropping money on a jet, then ending up in Cancun.
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
    Originally posted by Toma
    fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    I think there is a disconnect dropping money on a jet, then ending up in Cancun.
    Im too low class to understand that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tik-Tok View Post
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    I'd be lying if I said I didn't disagree.
    Quote Originally Posted by suntan View Post
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    His name isn't NICEramos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx Mazda View Post
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    That's an aid package for Air Canada. His original post was about Transat getting saved by the government...
    My bad, didn't even read the post. Just remember seeing aircanada and bailout in the thread title. But you should probably hand over your internet points anyway.
    Last edited by Misterman; 04-14-2021 at 09:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tik-Tok View Post
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    I'd be lying if I said I didn't disagree.
    Quote Originally Posted by suntan View Post
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    His name isn't NICEramos.

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    Trudeau and Freeland setting our money on fire.

    Not even news anymore.
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
    Originally posted by Toma
    fact.

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    So by my math, WestJet will get an $89 million loan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tik-Tok View Post
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    I'd be lying if I said I didn't disagree.
    Quote Originally Posted by suntan View Post
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    His name isn't NICEramos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSlow View Post
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    So by my math, WestJet will get an $89 million loan.
    Your math doesn’t account for where WestJet is headquartered.

    Somehow WestJet will need to give some money to AC and Transat.
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
    Originally posted by Toma
    fact.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    Your math doesn’t account for where WestJet is headquartered.

    Somehow WestJet will need to give some money to AC and Transat.
    Fingers crossed!
    ...

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSlow View Post
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    So by my math, WestJet will get an $89 million loan.
    Sounds about right as there's no way Westjet will hand over shares to the Feds.

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    I wish we could just let Air Canada go under. Just one time.
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
    Originally posted by Toma
    fact.

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    Unfortunately, thats not gonna happen!

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xtrema View Post
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    Sounds about right as there's no way Westjet will hand over shares to the Feds.
    You mean Onex?

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    Quote Originally Posted by suntan View Post
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    You mean Onex?
    Correct, as Westjet went private and Onex is more than Westjet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    I wish we could just let Air Canada go under. Just one time.
    Why?
    ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx Mazda View Post
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    Why?
    Because QC vs AB. We live and die by the market, everyone get bailed out in QC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx Mazda View Post
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    Why?
    Because any business that can’t cut it on its own and relays on government protections and subsidies deserves to fail.

    Why should we bail them out? Why should we bail anyone out?
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
    Originally posted by Toma
    fact.

  17. #37
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    Two main reasons
    1) because it's based in the east.
    2) because government support.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tik-Tok View Post
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    I'd be lying if I said I didn't disagree.
    Quote Originally Posted by suntan View Post
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    His name isn't NICEramos.

  18. #38
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    Those aren’t real reasons
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
    Originally posted by Toma
    fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    Because any business that can’t cut it on its own and relays on government protections and subsidies deserves to fail.

    Why should we bail them out? Why should we bail anyone out?
    Because the government caused the whole mess to begin with, that's why they agreed to bail out the airlines. The airlines were more than willing to do the song and dance in the name of "covid safety" IF they were allowed to continue operating unencumbered. The government had other ideas, forcing Canadian airlines to suspend service to American, Mexican, and carribean destinations. Meanwhile, allowing American carriers to carry Canadian passengers on the exact same routes. Hate to break it to you, but people didn't stop traveling. They just did so on American carriers. Meanwhile, for months previous, Canadian airlines were forced to spend tens of millions on covid safety measures, under the assumption that they'd be allowed to continue operating. Then, despite all of that, the current government decided to basically ground them anyway. It's akin to local restaurants spending $20,000-$30,000 on covid safety protocols, and then being forced to close anyways. That's why so many businesses have gone under, only in the airline world your costs are much, MUCH higher.

    The public liked to squawk when AC and WJ pulled out of the smaller communities out east, especially those in the atlantic bubble. They acted like the airlines had some sort of DUTY to serve those communities, when in reality they were continuing to fly nearly empty aircraft at a huge loss per flight. It's not sustainable, which is why they pulled out. Not just AC, but everyone. The beloved WestJet was even the first to do so by a few months. One of the conditions of the government aid package was that the airlines restore service to these communities. They basically told the government, they'll fly there, at a loss, but the tax payer is going to foot the bill for it. Now the exact same citizens who were crying foul over their buttfuck newfoundland town not receiving 6x daily service, gets a flight back, but also screams that the taxpayer shouldn't be paying for it... Well, which is it? Does the average Canadian schmo really believe a business should operate at a loss for some reason? Air travel is a privilege not a right.

    So, to answer your question as to "why" they should be given assistance, it's because the government was the sole entity responsible for the airlines losing their own sustainability. We're not even talking about profitability here. Air travel and air service are essential in Canada. The land mass is far too large, and the population density too low to travel or transport many goods any other way.

    Many people like to think that if an airline like AC were to go under, someone else would pop up in short order and fill the void, and probably offer cheaper service anyways, so what's the big deal, right? Wrong. Go price out a ticket somewhere and have a look at what the airline charges you. It may surprise you. On a $700 ticket, the airline likely keeps less than half. The rest go to fees, taxes, airport improvement fees, carbon levies, airport security taxes, etc. Just to give you a ballpark on the cost, in fuel alone, an airliner will burn somewhere between $18,000-$45,000 worth of fuel on a typical Toronto-Calgary flight. That's strictly fuel. The doesn't include wages of pilots, flight attendants, ground staff, gate agents, aircraft lease or maintenance. So you can see how flying an airplane with only 30 people on it, can quickly add up when the money stops flowing in.

    Hope I was able to educate you a bit.
    ...

  20. #40
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    That’s a lot of words that could easily be summarized by blaming your lack of sustainable business model on literally everyone but yourself.

    If airlines need a cash injection every 5-10 years to stave off bankruptcy, get shareholders or lenders to provide it. And stay the fuck away form my tax dollars.

    What’s next? You want to bail out oil companies because of their entirely government caused demise? I didn’t think so.
    Last edited by killramos; 04-30-2021 at 08:52 AM.
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
    Originally posted by Toma
    fact.

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