Am I crazy or is this the worst time ever to buy a vehicle?

[Buster]

I don't see how this is so complicated. Porsche has some special edition car that has a $200M MSRP, but sells in the secondary market for $500M. Do you think they dealer is not going to figure out a way to participate in that market and just give up the spread?

Any of these special cars get sold to an end-buyer with more money than brains, and the extra cash is captured by the DP.

[shakalaka]

You guys don't seem to understand what Shelby is saying. All he is saying is that he believes that there is some sort of a rule/procedure in place that doesn't allow Canadian dealers to significantly mark-up the price of brand-new vehicles from MSRP regardless of what vehicle it might be, whereas, it doesn't seem like there are any such checks and balances in the States.

He's not saying that dealers can't find ways around it or they aren't actually marking them up and doing it (in some sly manner) - obviously they do. It's just not as prevalent or obvious as it is in States.

I don't know for sure either way but you guys are just going around in circles.

[rage2]

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I agree and I don’t believe you could simply offer more money in order to get a brand new 911, they simply wouldn’t sell you one, then steer you at an alternative vehicle.

Sure you can. You buy one of those one owner “used” ones. They’re basically never registered new cars that just shows used in the eyes of Porsche.

You can even order a new one and expect to get it sooner by paying more money. And by paying more money meaning buying a couple of other cars from them. That’s basically what’s been happening for anyone that wanted something like a gt3 rs brand new even before COVID broke supply and demand.

But you’re right, technically, you don’t see them advertising new at over msrp, but almost everyone is paying over msrp one way or another.

[you&me]

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You guys don't seem to understand what Shelby is saying. All he is saying is that he believes that there is some sort of a rule/procedure in place that doesn't allow Canadian dealers to significantly mark-up the price of brand-new vehicles from MSRP regardless of what vehicle it might be, whereas, it doesn't seem like there are any such checks and balances in the States.

He's not saying that dealers can't find ways around it or they aren't actually marking them up and doing it (in some sly manner) - obviously they do. It's just not as prevalent or obvious as it is in States.

I don't know for sure either way but you guys are just going around in circles.

And Shelby is missing the point that the "brand new" cars on dealer floors in the US with the huge markups / ADMs aren't actually "brand new"; they're cars that have been punched to a VIP / shill / dealer friend and sold technically as a used car... with delivery miles and all but a week's worth of its full warranty.

It's a very symbiotic relationship between the dealer VIP and the dealership... There are a number of factors that go into determining high level allocations (GT3RS', for example), but the dealership doesn't necessarily have the same number of allocations without their VIP clients (there's generally a point system, or in the case of Porsche, most recently it was 918 buyers). Without those VIPs, the dealership risks losing allocations to other stores, so its in their interest to keep thei VIPs "in the fold"... Every situation is different, but in the Porsche world, typically the dealership gets the margin in the MSRP (~8-9% on a GT level Porsche), the VIP gets 50-75% of the ADM and the dealer gets the rest... Everyone's happy, except maybe the guy that pays $200k over for a Touring

Like I said earlier, the Canadian market isn't as supportive of huge markups, but if you want a GT3 now, I'm sure Pfaff has client cancelled order available... Or at least Kulu will be a little more honest about it

[rage2]

I don’t think that’s the case in the US. There are guys paying ADM on factory order cars with their name on the PO. There are guys financing new cars with ADM on it too. That’s in the AMG world anyways.

[Buster]

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And Shelby is missing the point that the "brand new" cars on dealer floors in the US with the huge markups / ADMs aren't actually "brand new"; they're cars that have been punched to a VIP / shill / dealer friend and sold technically as a used car... with delivery miles and all but a week's worth of its full warranty.

It's a very symbiotic relationship between the dealer VIP and the dealership... There are a number of factors that go into determining high level allocations (GT3RS', for example), but the dealership doesn't necessarily have the same number of allocations without their VIP clients (there's generally a point system, or in the case of Porsche, most recently it was 918 buyers). Without those VIPs, the dealership risks losing allocations to other stores, so its in their interest to keep thei VIPs "in the fold"... Every situation is different, but in the Porsche world, typically the dealership gets the margin in the MSRP (~8-9% on a GT level Porsche), the VIP gets 50-75% of the ADM and the dealer gets the rest... Everyone's happy, except maybe the guy that pays $200k over for a Touring

Like I said earlier, the Canadian market isn't as supportive of huge markups, but if you want a GT3 now, I'm sure Pfaff has client cancelled order available... Or at least Kulu will be a little more honest about it

If you don't know who the dumb money at the table is, I have bad news for you....

[ExtraSlow]

Arguing about the definition of words is the highest form of human thought.

[rage2]

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Arguing about the definition of words is the highest form of human thought.

How the fuck else we supposed to spend our holidays?

[Buster]

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Arguing about the definition of words is the highest form of human thought.

What do you mean by "arguing"?

[ExtraSlow]

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What do you mean by "arguing"?

[heavyD]

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I don’t think that’s the case in the US. There are guys paying ADM on factory order cars with their name on the PO. There are guys financing new cars with ADM on it too. That’s in the AMG world anyways.

If you have to finance ADM then you can't afford the car. It's madness but Americans don't care as they want what they want.

[killramos]

This all sounds unbelievably gross to me…

Basically take the typical terrible car buying experience and quadruple the dealership BS involved.

Gross

Can’t wait for the bottom to fall out of this.

[jutes]

Anyone recommend a good nissan dealer in AB/SK/MB? I know it's beyonds favorite brand and all.

[arcticcat522]

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Anyone recommend a good nissan dealer in AB/SK/MB? I know it's killramos favorite brand and all.

Fixed

[killramos]

Accurate

[ThePenIsMightier]

I was not impressed with Go Nissan South in Edmonton.
I drove by the one in Okotoks the other day and they barely have any stock. I'm not sure whether that's good/bad/indifferent.

[ExtraSlow]

Start emailing them. Any that don't deal over email are by definition not good dealers. I have a strong preference for not meeting my salespeople face to face.

[jutes]

In-person haggling with Nissan salesman just adds to the experience of purchasing a Japanese built tank.

[you&me]

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If you don't know who the dumb money at the table is, I have bad news for you....

I prefer not to get involved with who's dumb and whatnot... I just follow directions

[Buster]

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I prefer not to get involved with who's dumb and whatnot... I just follow directions

I wasn't referring to you, I was agreeing with you, hah