Am I crazy or is this the worst time ever to buy a vehicle?

[rx7boi]

Meh, no big deal. People have been selling overpriced shit way before the pandemic started.

I wouldn't put too much thought into it.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

Yeah this happens with all sorts of makes and models. Sometimes I see an ad preview with a price and just lol.

[got_mike33]

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Trying to sucker dumb people into thinking they’re primes?

Doesn't seem to be that way, all the ads are clearly labeled with the trim. I was told by one dealer it's because of the high demand and low supply of these vehicles, but those prices are nuts.

[rage2]

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Doesn't seem to be that way, all the ads are clearly labeled with the trim. I was told by one dealer it's because of the high demand and low supply of these vehicles, but those prices are nuts.

That is a huge issue too. There are people who need a car replacement and have no choice but to pay these silly prices. Some dealerships are now refusing to sell you a low supply high demand car unless you trade something in. And they’re offering silly money. I made out well on both my cars I sold, and one was a dealer trade in. Got 15-20k more than if I sold last year. Its nuts.

Now excuse me while I go warm up my 03 Sentra because I have no cars left.

[tonytiger55]

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What in the actual fuck is going on with the pricing of RAV4 hybrids? When did they become the vehicle that people are paying significantly more than MSRP for used:

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...age/1598342482

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...ybrid/m2837663

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...e-awd/m2777922

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...xle/1593204505

That is MSRP. When you add tax, financing a few paint protection goodies etc. Thats the price it comes up to.
I was looking at the XLE earlier this summer. When I ran the financing etc it came up as that.
Im thinking those people are trying to break even in the sale. That price is Lexus territory. Also It would take 7 years to start getting money back from the fuel savings. I would have bought it if I was on duel income with a partner. But as a single guy..it was 10K over my budget. I saved the cash and focused on enjoying the double meat subs.

[spikerS]

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Got 15-20k more than if I sold last year. Its nuts.

Truth.

I traded in my '19 Lariat with ~41k on it. In a "normal" year, dealer would have probably given me $43k when trading it in. I traded it in this year for a new '21, and the dealer gave me $55k in trade which is what I got it for new back in '19 after the factory incentives...

[heavyD]

RAV4 hybrid xle
Brand new car just drive 1000 km
Asking price 49000 not negotiable

Sign of the times I guess but I just don't understand why people are paying this kind of money for vehicles. Especially ones like this.

[Buster]

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Sign of the times I guess but I just don't understand why people are paying this kind of money for vehicles. Especially ones like this.

"This kind of money" isn't worth what that kind of money used to be worth.

[jutes]

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"This kind of money" isn't worth what that kind of money used to be worth.

Your salary hasn't gone up with inflation? Should get on the fed gov gravy train.

[Buster]

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Your salary hasn't gone up with inflation? Should get on the fed gov gravy train.

Haven't had a salary since 2006...but I get what you mean.

[ragu]

Those who are in the industry, is the bigger driver new car availability (shortage) or FOMO? If it’s former, when do you expect it to sort out and used car market to come back to earth?

[Buster]

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Those who are in the industry, is the bigger driver new car availability (shortage) or FOMO? If it’s former, when do you expect it to sort out and used car market to come back to earth?

It's inflation. Inflation doesn't spread itself evenly around an economy as is implied by the one number that gets thrown around. Supply chain issues are part of the inflation problem, as is currency inflation.

[ragu]

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It's inflation. Inflation doesn't spread itself evenly around an economy as is implied by the one number that gets thrown around. Supply chain issues are part of the inflation problem, as is currency inflation.

Partly, yes. But I think a big part of this is new car production as my friend who ordered a new car (Lexus) has been waiting for 6 months. Nothing crazy in spec but what is supply chain.

[Xtrema]

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Those who are in the industry, is the bigger driver new car availability (shortage) or FOMO? If it’s former, when do you expect it to sort out and used car market to come back to earth?

There is a bit of FOMO but Toyota said they are starting to churn out 800k next month a bottleneck eases. So these craziness will be ease.

But watch out when 2023 MSRP are set, we may be in for a shock.

[rage2]

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There is a bit of FOMO but Toyota said they are starting to churn out 800k next month a bottleneck eases. So these craziness will be ease.

But watch out when 2023 MSRP are set, we may be in for a shock.

Toyota is the only one to figure it out. Everyone else still struggling. I know the MB situation well and they’re absolutely fucked. Each dealer has something like 100 cars stuck in Germany completed but missing parts. These are 2021 cars. I believe my car is the first 2022 out of Germany destined for Alberta. Alabama production is a bit better so 2022 SUVs are trickling in based on what’s showing up in inventory.

Then there’s the backlog. Even with Toyota it’ll take months to clear.

But ya next year will suck for pricing.

[ragu]

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Toyota is the only one to figure it out. Everyone else still struggling. I know the MB situation well and they’re absolutely fucked. Each dealer has something like 100 cars stuck in Germany completed but missing parts. These are 2021 cars. I believe my car is the first 2022 out of Germany destined for Alberta. Alabama production is a bit better so 2022 SUVs are trickling in based on what’s showing up in inventory.

Then there’s the backlog. Even with Toyota it’ll take months to clear.

But ya next year will suck for pricing.

I don’t understand this too well. What exactly are they missing from production perspective? What is this chip or whatever else…

[rage2]

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I don’t understand this too well. What exactly are they missing from production perspective? What is this chip or whatever else…

Here’s how I understand it.

It’s legacy cheap chips. Our iPhones are what 5nm chips? These are 15 year old 45nm chips that do really simple shit such as locking and unlocking doors, controlling pressure to lumbar air bags, controlling start stop, regulate power for screens, etc. Basic ass functions. They’re cheap and reliable. Because they’re so old, they’re built in old ass fabs that manufactures nothing but these legacy chips. Supply chain and logistics had a perfect balance of production, cost, margins, capacity. Things were good.

Covid hits. Car manufacturers are stupid and thought the car market is toast. People staying at home. Let’s cancel chip contracts. 2 things happen. Fabs became a liability. Fabs are run so lean that any changes to demand will lose them a ton of money. Fabs upgrade to newer nm process reducing capacity but will make higher margin modern chips. Tv manufactures and other industry order more chips and lock out whatever capacity is left because everyone is at home watching tv. Car manufactures then see spike in demand because everyone who still has a job has disposable income and want to upgrade cars. They have no chips to meet demand, let alone the growth. They can’t get new contracts because capacity has been reduced and supply being taken by other industries. All of a sudden, you have cars that can’t be produced because it’s can’t get a bunch of 5 cent parts.

That’s the big part of it. Toyota actually hoarded chips and didn’t reduce their orders so they weren’t really affected at all. What got them was Covid shutdowns for things like wiring loom assembly plants in Vietnam and Malaysia so that’s what they were short on. They were able to pivot to other manufacturers quickly so their reduced production only really lasted 2 months. Their demand is through the roof as people (hey even me) went to buy a Toyota.

That’s where we stand now. Car manufacturers are scrambling to find replacement more expensive chips and redesigning components to work with them. Tesla did that relatively quickly, traditional manufacturers are taking more time on it, my guess based on legacy development cycles, as well as much more stringent testing cycles. The other fix is manufacturers outbidding other industries on legacy chips on further contracts. With reduced production capacity, it’s a lot more expensive now. That’s why shit is slowly getting more expensive.

[Buster]

The BMW guys recently tried to sell me a $130k SUV with no touch screen. Lol

[blairtruck]

wagon got delayed 2 weeks maybe Jan 1 delivery. Landed in Halifax 2 weeks ago. I lost the compass in the mirror due to chip shortage. Better than General motors losing heated seats and heated steering wheels.

[ExtraSlow]

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Here’s how I understand it.

It’s legacy cheap chips. Our iPhones are what 5nm chips? These are 15 year old 45nm chips that do really simple shit such as locking and unlocking doors, controlling pressure to lumbar air bags, controlling start stop, regulate power for screens, etc. Basic ass functions. They’re cheap and reliable. Because they’re so old, they’re built in old ass fabs that manufactures nothing but these legacy chips. Supply chain and logistics had a perfect balance of production, cost, margins, capacity. Things were good.

Accurate assessment, and has affected many industries. Cheap microchips control nearly every product. A car may have dozens of low-end chips that handle things. My company has had to completely redesign a few products because of $9 chips, and even though we found alternative, we have to re-write all the firmware to run them.