215 bodies in Kamloops mass childrens grave.

[AndyL]

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A lot die from abuse within their own community now. You're telling me this is a recent phenomenon?
I'm sure if you asked Parliament back then, there was an outcry from everyone regarding aboriginal children abuse, drug and alcohol addiction.

Talk to a social worker these days who deals with FN - and yes this is a recent phenomenon. Because you've got 3-4 generations of "non-parents" (kids were removed) so they don't have the life skills / parental role models. Thus where we are today.

The original outcry was due to a picture of emaciated FN children in the west eating grass because they were absolutely starving to death.

It's a bloody mess. And the government hasn't a clue how to address it. Because every issue compounds at this point.

[Buster]

There is ultimately only one way to address it: de-segregate the population.

Canada's little apartheid-lite isn't working.

[JRSC00LUDE]

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Not saying it wasn't wrong how it was conducted. It's a very bad situation and discovery. Residential schools did start with the best intentions.
It's not like the Aboriginal communities were full of nobleman and every child would have become scholars staying in their community.
I'm sure they'd tell you that was the case though.

A lot die from abuse within their own community now. You're telling me this is a recent phenomenon?
I'm sure if you asked Parliament back then, there was an outcry from everyone regarding aboriginal children abuse, drug and alcohol addiction.

Someone had to be witness to the living conditions within their community to stuff this many dollars and buildings built to do this program over decades.

But I'm sure the answer is that it wasn't ENOUGH money spent or given.

I think you're compartmentalizing and not seeing the overall picture. I'm also not a scholar on this either but current events/money/etc. aside I think the intent was as it had been all along to that point, to wipe out their cultures/traditions/etc. and make them like the "white man". It really was part of a slow and intentional genocide after the land was conquered. Laughable to suggest otherwise imo. I don't believe for a moment there were any "best intentions" for anyone but "white" society.

As far as the road out of this mess, Buster is completely correct that segregation isn't the path. It makes the Native population a national Quebec and people hate them for the special treatment, there's plenty of evidence of that in each of these threads. It's too bad the politics of the situation over the decades—from both sides— has made it nearly impossible now to undo. Neither segment of the current population deserves the mess we have inherited and those figures in history should be unilaterally hated by everyone for what they've created. Seriously though, think of one example where living in the past has every created a successful future. And that's all both sides of the Governments will do. So we can expect nothing but the same result in perpetuity now.

Now all that being said, unlike ol' kerty I can actually be wrong and live so if you/anyone disagrees lay it on me!

[Kloubek]

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I’ve been scratching my head at this, I thought it was pretty common knowledge that kids died at these schools, and likely every single one has a site like this. Either a LOT of people weren’t paying attention or it’s a slow news cycle?

Growing up in Kamloops, we heard about atrocities that went on there, but it was largely discounted as unsubstantiated hearsay - and the history of the Catholic church hurting children in general hadn't yet become mainstream. There was very little interest in bringing details to light.

I think if this doesn't make people understand and convince them what went on not TOO long ago, nothing will. It eliminates the "stories" and turns them into "fact" for many.

I can't believe (actually I can) how the church hasn't acknowledged this finding yet. I can appreciate It's hard for some natives to move on - especially when nobody has been held to or taken responsibility.

[kertejud2]

So we’re back to the calls of unilateral amalgamation to solve a problem caused by forced amalgamation?

What’s Canada offering up to get FNs to give up their sovereignty and land? It’s the only question that matters. Because unlike apartheid or segregation in the US, the oppressed group isn’t actually calling for the setup to change, which is kind of an important distinction.

[Buster]

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So we’re back to the calls of unilateral amalgamation to solve a problem caused by forced amalgamation?

What’s Canada offering up to get FNs to give up their sovereignty and land? It’s the only question that matters. Because unlike apartheid or segregation in the US, the oppressed group isn’t actually calling for the setup to change, which is kind of an important distinction.

you're back to arguing for segregation. This is always entertaining.

[killramos]

Could you imagine if white people were calling to be segregated from the other races?

According to Kert segregation is ok as long as the people segregating themselves want to do it.

Are gated communities going to be allowed as long as they are segregated by race? You could ensure it by only allowing title to be transferred to another white person.

And people wonder how these feel good progressive policies spiral back into straight up racism…

[Buster]

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Could you imagine if white people were calling to be segregated from the other races?

According to Kert segregation is ok as long as the people segregating themselves want to do it.

Are gated communities going to be allowed as long as they are segregated by race? You could ensure it by only allowing title to be transferred to another white person.

And people wonder how these feel good progressive policies spiral back into straight up racism…

dont discourage him please. I think it's highly entertaining.

[kertejud2]

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you're back to arguing for segregation. This is always entertaining.

You're back to wanting the government to unilaterally take oppressed people's land and sovereignty away for their own good.

[Buster]

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You're back to wanting the government to unilaterally take oppressed people's land and sovereignty away for their own good.

define "people" in the context of your post.

[Disoblige]

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Could you imagine if white people were calling to be segregated from the other races?

Yes. Oh wait, I didn't even have to imagine it.

[kertejud2]

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define "people" in the context of your post.

I'll let the Constitution do that:

Rights of the Aboriginal Peoples of Canada

Recognition of existing aboriginal and treaty rights

35 (1) The existing aboriginal and treaty rights of the aboriginal peoples of Canada are hereby recognized and affirmed.

Definition of aboriginal peoples of Canada

(2) In this Act, aboriginal peoples of Canada includes the Indian, Inuit and Métis peoples of Canada.

Marginal note:Land claims agreements

(3) For greater certainty, in subsection (1) treaty rights includes rights that now exist by way of land claims agreements or may be so acquired.

Aboriginal and treaty rights are guaranteed equally to both sexes

(4) Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act, the aboriginal and treaty rights referred to in subsection (1) are guaranteed equally to male and female persons.

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/const/page-13.html

[jutes]

When do I get my Eastern European white person status card. Or is that racist.

[Buster]

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I'll let the Constitution do that:

Rights of the Aboriginal Peoples of Canada

Recognition of existing aboriginal and treaty rights

35 (1) The existing aboriginal and treaty rights of the aboriginal peoples of Canada are hereby recognized and affirmed.

Definition of aboriginal peoples of Canada

(2) In this Act, aboriginal peoples of Canada includes the Indian, Inuit and Métis peoples of Canada.

Marginal note:Land claims agreements

(3) For greater certainty, in subsection (1) treaty rights includes rights that now exist by way of land claims agreements or may be so acquired.

Aboriginal and treaty rights are guaranteed equally to both sexes

(4) Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act, the aboriginal and treaty rights referred to in subsection (1) are guaranteed equally to male and female persons.

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/const/page-13.html

right. so segregation based on race.

lol.

- - - Updated - - -

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When do I get my Eastern European white person status card. Or is that racist.

"I'm a racist. But the good kind."

- kert

[mr2mike]

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When do I get my Eastern European white person status card. Or is that racist.

When can the oppressors of the country my grandparents fled send some restitution money to a few of our generations?
My grand parents had to be like Drake and start back at the bottom to get where they are now.

[kertejud2]

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right. so segregation based on race.

lol.

If Canada didn’t want it, they should have negotiated better. FNs fought for Section 35. Giving it up will be a non-starter just as not being acknowledged as distinct nations was a non-starter when treaties were made.

Could Canada have negotiated better? Given the situation in Australia, New Zealand, and the U.S. it doesn’t seem like there was much wiggle room on the ‘segregation’ thing. Who would have thought the people the government tried to eradicate would be less than welcoming to the idea of ceding autonomy to that government when they didn’t have to?

[Buster]

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If Canada didn’t want it, they should have negotiated better. FNs fought for Section 35. Giving it up will be a non-starter just as not being acknowledged as distinct nations was a non-starter when treaties were made.

Could Canada have negotiated better? Given the situation in Australia, New Zealand, and the U.S. it doesn’t seem like there was much wiggle room on the ‘segregation’ thing. Who would have thought the people the government tried to eradicate would be less than welcoming to the idea of ceding autonomy to that government when they didn’t have to?

Segregation isn't okay, regardless of whether it is under the guise of a treaty or not.

Racist.

[dirtsniffer]

If the nations in BC never signed treaties why would canada provide or require kids to go to school? What are our responsibilities to nations without treaties? Is this similar to quebec not signing the constitution?

[kertejud2]

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Segregation isn't okay, regardless of whether it is under the guise of a treaty or not.

So what are you proposing to end it? Put your (well, the country’s) money where your mouth is.

Racist.

Oh no, a guy who whines about how bad white men have it thinks I’m racist, my day is ruined.

[Buster]

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thinks I’m racist, my day is ruined.

Deep down you know I'm right, that's why you don't like it.